Argh!!! Constantly Out of Tune!!!
Moderator: jingle_jangle
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jcarby
Argh!!! Constantly Out of Tune!!!
I am the original owner of a '92 370/12. It seems that this thing has never been in tune. It is currently set up and used as a six string (w/11's), but again, out of tune. I'm not talking about intonation. I tune. I strum (lightly) a few times. I pull hair out. It's gone(way)flat again in a matter of seconds. Its not just a subtle chorusing effect, but heinous, stomach churning atonality. What can I do? It is not gig-worthy at this point. I do not want to pull a Pete Townsend with it, though the thought has crossed my mind. ANY advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Having a guitar that would not stay in tune, was something that I personally had problems with for years .
I went to work for a German (Klaus Heyne ) in Sanfrancisco in Feb 1977 after I had left the Rickenbacker factory . Klaus would examine troubles until he found a useful solution to his problem .
A case in point .....Jefferson Airplane was famous for having long concerts , but half the show was them constantly tuning their guitars/basses.
After taking their gear to several shops , they ended up with guitars on Klaus' bench .
He noted that the guitars (while structually sound , and the frets were fine and the strings of high quality) were strung in a manner that he called ... "the derranged sailor knot method."
I have since Americanized it and call it "the derranged Boy Scout knot method" .
The Jeff.Airplane were not the only ones with this problem .
Klaus showed me a few stringing tricks and the WHY /Why-not to each one .
There are several of these that I SHOW in my Warner Brother / REH Video .
Once learning HOW to install strings and getting into a habit of doing that method , then stretching them out BEFORE playing and then retuning ... you should be fine .
To directly answer your question -----
Problems to look for on a Rick that cause tuning troubles ;
The 'R' tailpiece wobbles from side to side when stringing , and it is as tailpieces go it is a highly stylized /visible piece of poorly designed hardware . The wobbling is the real problem . Looks cool ... but it would be nice to have something else. However ......It CAN be made to work . There are far worse tailpieces being used on other brands of guitars .
Tuners ... are they actually tight to the headstock? Check the screws , and if they are Schaller tuners , check the 10mm hex nut on the face of the headstock , DON'T torque this .Make it snug , that is all it needs .
The bridge ......those four pesky hex screws love to NOT seat themselves in that plate and the bridge loves to tilt . Make sure that all four screws are sitting in their hole and that the chassis of the bridge is parallel with the face of the guitar .
Now if all of this is fine , the Hook that the 'R' sits on may be the trouble . Maybe even the 'R'.......check for stress and or crackks .
This is not common , but it can happen .
I had to personally show several of the band members of Jeff Starship , Santana, The Dead, Elvin Bishop,Boz Scaggs, Tower of Power,HOW to install strings . They were trying everything (they thought) on their guitars .It was not working .
They always loved how the guitars were after they picked them up ......but after a while (read -string changes) they were back to the out of tune thing .
Discribing the HOW to do theses stringing methods is hard to do . Try my video .. I show HOW to string ; A Les Paul with Kluson tuners ,
a Strat with Vintage Kluson (hollow post) tuners ,
a Guild acoustic ,
and a Classical .
These are all strung similar ...yet different .
It makes a huge difference . Try it ...you'll like it .
I went to work for a German (Klaus Heyne ) in Sanfrancisco in Feb 1977 after I had left the Rickenbacker factory . Klaus would examine troubles until he found a useful solution to his problem .
A case in point .....Jefferson Airplane was famous for having long concerts , but half the show was them constantly tuning their guitars/basses.
After taking their gear to several shops , they ended up with guitars on Klaus' bench .
He noted that the guitars (while structually sound , and the frets were fine and the strings of high quality) were strung in a manner that he called ... "the derranged sailor knot method."
I have since Americanized it and call it "the derranged Boy Scout knot method" .
The Jeff.Airplane were not the only ones with this problem .
Klaus showed me a few stringing tricks and the WHY /Why-not to each one .
There are several of these that I SHOW in my Warner Brother / REH Video .
Once learning HOW to install strings and getting into a habit of doing that method , then stretching them out BEFORE playing and then retuning ... you should be fine .
To directly answer your question -----
Problems to look for on a Rick that cause tuning troubles ;
The 'R' tailpiece wobbles from side to side when stringing , and it is as tailpieces go it is a highly stylized /visible piece of poorly designed hardware . The wobbling is the real problem . Looks cool ... but it would be nice to have something else. However ......It CAN be made to work . There are far worse tailpieces being used on other brands of guitars .
Tuners ... are they actually tight to the headstock? Check the screws , and if they are Schaller tuners , check the 10mm hex nut on the face of the headstock , DON'T torque this .Make it snug , that is all it needs .
The bridge ......those four pesky hex screws love to NOT seat themselves in that plate and the bridge loves to tilt . Make sure that all four screws are sitting in their hole and that the chassis of the bridge is parallel with the face of the guitar .
Now if all of this is fine , the Hook that the 'R' sits on may be the trouble . Maybe even the 'R'.......check for stress and or crackks .
This is not common , but it can happen .
I had to personally show several of the band members of Jeff Starship , Santana, The Dead, Elvin Bishop,Boz Scaggs, Tower of Power,HOW to install strings . They were trying everything (they thought) on their guitars .It was not working .
They always loved how the guitars were after they picked them up ......but after a while (read -string changes) they were back to the out of tune thing .
Discribing the HOW to do theses stringing methods is hard to do . Try my video .. I show HOW to string ; A Les Paul with Kluson tuners ,
a Strat with Vintage Kluson (hollow post) tuners ,
a Guild acoustic ,
and a Classical .
These are all strung similar ...yet different .
It makes a huge difference . Try it ...you'll like it .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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mark_telfer
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:48 am
I saw Jefferson Starship The Next Generation in Bilston, West Midlands, UK last night. Paul Kantner changed between 3 Guild 12-string acoustics during the evening. The tunings were regular, open C, and dropped D, as far as I could tell. Interestingly for me, Paul used the dropped D with a capo for several songs, including "She Has Funny Cars" and "Volunteers".
At one point, while tuning up, Paul told us that he'd used Rickenbackers for 10 years but that they'd never stayed in tune. I could have throttled the "fan" who then shouted "Yeh, we know."
When I met Paul afterwards, I thanked him for coming over, and told him that I loved his 12-string playing. "Hey, I'm still learning" was his humble answer. Paul later came back into the auditorium and signed my long-treasured "JA Takes Off" LP, by signing his name and drawing a face with a pair of glasses next to it.
Having met Sir Paul McCartney backstage while with Pete Wylie's band at the George Harrison Tribute Concert in Liverpool in February and Roger McGuinn in Manchester in June, both for the first time, I have spent much of the year as an awestruck 37-year-old teenager. Sorry to be self-indulgent here, but I desperately need news of a 1993C64 re-issue to help me to chill out!
At one point, while tuning up, Paul told us that he'd used Rickenbackers for 10 years but that they'd never stayed in tune. I could have throttled the "fan" who then shouted "Yeh, we know."
When I met Paul afterwards, I thanked him for coming over, and told him that I loved his 12-string playing. "Hey, I'm still learning" was his humble answer. Paul later came back into the auditorium and signed my long-treasured "JA Takes Off" LP, by signing his name and drawing a face with a pair of glasses next to it.
Having met Sir Paul McCartney backstage while with Pete Wylie's band at the George Harrison Tribute Concert in Liverpool in February and Roger McGuinn in Manchester in June, both for the first time, I have spent much of the year as an awestruck 37-year-old teenager. Sorry to be self-indulgent here, but I desperately need news of a 1993C64 re-issue to help me to chill out!
"But the man has a 47-string guitar." (Grace Slick on Paul Kantner's attempt to tune his 366/12 during a Winterland show of October 31 1969).
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jcarby
Ok,I tightened and checked everything and it behaved perfectly fine for a week in the house. So I decided to treat it to a performance. By the end of the set we were singing accapella it had become so bad. There weren't any stage lights and I wasn't playing hard to throw things out. I don't know what happened, it was doing so good. Should I change the tuners? Get a trapeze? I'm at a loss and it's going to the closet. I've gigged with Squires that have held their tuning better. Any help?
Joe: You have not described what strings go out of tune. Is it all of them or just specific ones?
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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jcarby
It's the G, B,and high E. Low E, on occasion, before I tightened it down. I've sometimes made it through sets only playing the A and D strings since I could count on them. Now, I'm going back to my feedback prone Casino,until I can figure out what to do with this thing.
Rickenbacker QC is amazing, I think, and so with the exceptions of Jefferson (insert name of flying machine here) and myself other Ricks are dependable. Right?
Rickenbacker QC is amazing, I think, and so with the exceptions of Jefferson (insert name of flying machine here) and myself other Ricks are dependable. Right?
Joe - I own two RIC twelves: a 360/12v64 and a 370/12. I have absolutely no trouble keeping mine in tune. How do you anchor your strings to the tuners and typically how many wraps do you do on a tuner? When you anchor your strings onto the R tailpiece - are the strings seated? or do they seat under tension and pull on each other?
Joe: The problem is basically on the first three string then if I have interpreted your response correctly. I realize that you are playing this as a six string at the moment. While the 4th, 5th and 6th strings are in the right slots at the nut, is the same the case for the 1st three strings. Have you tried graphite in the slots for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings? The strings may be binding in the nut.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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jcarby
I used to wrap the strings about 2-3x around the post before tuning to pitch. This last time, I tried 4-5x before tuning to pitch. This has not been a problem with my other guitars. The strings are each in their proper nut slots (without binding) and fit snugly in the proper "R" slots. I have not tried a graphite lube yet. It's now been retired. At some distant point, I am going to take to the shop, have it checked and made a 12 again when I get some money. Thanks anyway.