Optical Illusion?

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:25 am

Is there more of a difference between a "2 'O Clock" F hole and the latter version F holes on 325s, or is it merely the positions that are different? Somehow, it almost seems like the earlier versions are a bid wider in the middle. But I realize this might just be an illusion.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:44 am

No, it's no illusion. The two are different, both in position and style.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:47 am

Thanks, John.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:21 am

John, that's true if you're speaking of the later -F- holes, but in the 60's there was only one -F- hole fixture which was simply rotated as the body blank was clamped to it. (I still have it.) That's why you see everything from 1:00 to 1:45 and everything in between. (Sorry, I don't believe there ever was a 2:00, just 1:45's!) There are some very small variations in the hole shape itself due to wear of the bit and the router pin, or combinations thereof.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:24 am

JH: I read ya. In reference to Glen's post, the examples I was thinking of span about a 10 year period, from a '58 325 to, say, a '67 or '68, where by then they look more or less of the style used on a RM1997, kind of stretched out and narrower. Perhaps by then the templates had been renewed from wear as you have mentioned. If I was offered one, I wouldn't be picky no matter what style it was..LOL

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:36 pm

Indeed, from '58 through at least '68, the -F- was reasonably consistent, except for its orientation. Without doing some further research, I'd guess that might hold into '70 or '71 as well.

325-at-2pm · Post by **325-at-2pm** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:52 am

Here are 3 guitars where my eyes see 3 different F-Hole patterns.

http://www.guitarbroker.com/8043a.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/aurs3/320.html

Tried to upload the pics, but they were too big. Maybe someone can slim the file size down and upload them into this thread.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:14 am

No optical illusion there, all three are different. Craig's 1996 is what we could call a 'type 1', this type was used from 1958-60 and on the first RM1996s that were shipped. The white 320 on JWilli's site has a 'type 2'(my terminology) f-hole, from mid 1964 and up. I think this is the one John Hall refers to above as the one that was used the most in the 60's and the position varies. Hard to say about the one with the black pickguards, maybe JWilli can chime in about it. Is it a factory f-hole on a newer template, or was it done after the fact?

8mileshigh · Post by **8mileshigh** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:41 am

8mileshigh · Post by **8mileshigh** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:43 am

325-at-2pm · Post by **325-at-2pm** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:55 am

Yea. Great job guys!

That pretty much shows it. In addition, look at the shape of the body on the black guard guitar. The points of the horns are so much sharper than normally seen.

I have a fireglo 320 from the same period of time (mid-80s) that also has the 2pm f-hole. I'm pretty sure that it's f-hole is exactly like the 1964 at Guitar Broker.

Very interesting for sure..........

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:25 am

I'd like to know the story on the 320 with the black 'guards, it has a 60's sharp body shape but has high gains for pickups....(from the 80s??) David's white 320(not the one in the pic)is from 1975 and also has a 60's body shape to it and a 1:00 f-hole(sorry JH, it's a hard habit to break) or 'type 2' style.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:29 am

Guys, the FG 320 w/ black guards was an '86 model. The White 320 was an '83. I believe the body on the '83 was at least a half inch wider than the '86. It was also much heavier. I liked the '86 better.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:33 am

All those different 'f' holes........

They must be Yoko replicas.

he he he

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:55 am

No.......Yoko's replicas are "spot on".