Well, some disappointing news (sort of). I called Jackson Music today to see how long it might bebeforeI receive my 360/6 BBR. The original time estimate I was given was 6-9 months and as it's been 6 months I thought I'd try to get an update on how it's progressing. The sales guy there talked to Rickenbacker and they said it is more likely to be closer to the 9 month mark, which means another 3 months of waiting. Ah well, it'll make it all the sweeter when it arrives and, as I said in an earlier posting, January or February is a sweet time of the year (at least here in Canada) to receive such a beautiful, fun distraction.
The fellow at Rickenbacker said it'd be closer to 9 months because there was some initial problems with the blueburst finish in general - wasn't quite right on some of the earlier BBR jobs. Anybody know what these were? Is this fairly typical when trying out a new colour? This means a couple of things to me anyway:
1. That Rickenbacker takes its quality control seriously
2. That the BBR finish on my 360 is going to be drop dead gorgeous!
Well worth a couple month's wait in my opinion....
BBR finish problems
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melibreits
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Jackson music is a quality operation. I like the new layout of the store, and the staff is friendly and professional.
I don't know that they are "experts" on Rickenbackers, but that's ok. They don't pretend to be know-it-alls, and are pretty upfront about everything. Not every transaction has been picture perfect, but they always take care of me (for the limited amount of business I've done there). I'd buy a Rick from them anytime.
I don't know that they are "experts" on Rickenbackers, but that's ok. They don't pretend to be know-it-alls, and are pretty upfront about everything. Not every transaction has been picture perfect, but they always take care of me (for the limited amount of business I've done there). I'd buy a Rick from them anytime.
I've had a pretty positive experience with them so far too.
I am curious though about the finishing problems. Maybe Paul could enlighten me about the typical sort of finishing problems a company like Rickenbacker would encounter in this regard when rolling out a new colour. I just assumed, naively I guess, that they'd do a bunch of tests, get a finish colour/process and then just "roll" it onto the guitars so to speak-i.e. that the finishing part would be a pretty "cookie cutter" kind of thing once all the bugs were worked out. Of course, I'm the first to admit I don't know anything about it!
I am curious though about the finishing problems. Maybe Paul could enlighten me about the typical sort of finishing problems a company like Rickenbacker would encounter in this regard when rolling out a new colour. I just assumed, naively I guess, that they'd do a bunch of tests, get a finish colour/process and then just "roll" it onto the guitars so to speak-i.e. that the finishing part would be a pretty "cookie cutter" kind of thing once all the bugs were worked out. Of course, I'm the first to admit I don't know anything about it!
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jingle_jangle
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I'll try to share some of the thoughts that I have on this process.
I know that initially there was a time period when RIC was experimenting with the type of BBR that they were going to do. How dark would the edges be? How dark or light should the center be? How gradual would the fade from edges to center be?
The first pictures that were posted last January left me less than thrilled, but knowing that these things take time to nail and RIC does listen to customer feedback and especially pay attention to what's said on this Forum, my thought was, "give it some time to settle in".
The next pics I saw, of the first few that turned up at dealers, looked better and they've gotten downright yummy since.
That's the color and shading issue.
Rickenbacker started using their new formulation of conversion varnish last July and increased production was just starting to nibble away at the backlog, when some difficulties arose in the heat and humidity of August.
The new conversion varnish, which normally lays nice and smooth and flat and glossy following application and cures looking "wet", was beginning to show microbubbles. My own thought on this after a good look at a couple of guitars with JH's handy-dandy stereo microscope, is that the CV was absorbing moisture from the humid air, which in August in SoCal can average 85% humidity. This moisture absorption (hygroscopy) is common to the type of chemistry used in their CV, although it has been formulated to minimize the problem. The moisture in the CV causes microbubbles of CO2 to form during the normal polymerizaton reaction as the varnish cures.
The bubbles which I saw that caused the guitars to be rejected were microscopically small, and your comment, Bill, about their QC was right on the mark. They were all but invisible to the naked eye. So otherwise perfect instruments were being rejected.
Regardless, time gained was lost again and the weather turned cooler and dryer, which enabled them to get things going again while they worked on solving the problem. I think that by the onset of the next bout of heat and humidity, there will not be any more issues.
Meantime, RIC walks a tightrope between a comfortable backlog and one that can be unwieldy at times, and this new lower VOC CV should help everyone concerned--RIC, who will be able to fill demand, and dealers and customers, who will have shorter waiting times.
I know that initially there was a time period when RIC was experimenting with the type of BBR that they were going to do. How dark would the edges be? How dark or light should the center be? How gradual would the fade from edges to center be?
The first pictures that were posted last January left me less than thrilled, but knowing that these things take time to nail and RIC does listen to customer feedback and especially pay attention to what's said on this Forum, my thought was, "give it some time to settle in".
The next pics I saw, of the first few that turned up at dealers, looked better and they've gotten downright yummy since.
That's the color and shading issue.
Rickenbacker started using their new formulation of conversion varnish last July and increased production was just starting to nibble away at the backlog, when some difficulties arose in the heat and humidity of August.
The new conversion varnish, which normally lays nice and smooth and flat and glossy following application and cures looking "wet", was beginning to show microbubbles. My own thought on this after a good look at a couple of guitars with JH's handy-dandy stereo microscope, is that the CV was absorbing moisture from the humid air, which in August in SoCal can average 85% humidity. This moisture absorption (hygroscopy) is common to the type of chemistry used in their CV, although it has been formulated to minimize the problem. The moisture in the CV causes microbubbles of CO2 to form during the normal polymerizaton reaction as the varnish cures.
The bubbles which I saw that caused the guitars to be rejected were microscopically small, and your comment, Bill, about their QC was right on the mark. They were all but invisible to the naked eye. So otherwise perfect instruments were being rejected.
Regardless, time gained was lost again and the weather turned cooler and dryer, which enabled them to get things going again while they worked on solving the problem. I think that by the onset of the next bout of heat and humidity, there will not be any more issues.
Meantime, RIC walks a tightrope between a comfortable backlog and one that can be unwieldy at times, and this new lower VOC CV should help everyone concerned--RIC, who will be able to fill demand, and dealers and customers, who will have shorter waiting times.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Well Mr. Hall, even though I've already stated I've had a pretty positive experience with Jackson Music so far, I think I'll still take your word over theirs! Thanks. I'm looking forward to its arrival-again, as I've said in another posting, getting a guitar conceived, constructed, and delivered in 9 months is such a great metaphor, I might've insisted on such a waiting period if only for the symbolism!
Thanks for the detailed response Paul-that makes a lot of sense to me. And, it affirms my confidence in buying a Rickenbacker sight unseen (though this hardly needed affirming after the billion positive posts I've read here).
It seems funny somehow to think that the production of guitars, in this ultra-technological age, could be affected by something as basic as environmental humidity. But it also gives me a greater realization that you have human hands crafting and honing these things, instead of them just being churned out of machines. It's comforting in a way.
It seems funny somehow to think that the production of guitars, in this ultra-technological age, could be affected by something as basic as environmental humidity. But it also gives me a greater realization that you have human hands crafting and honing these things, instead of them just being churned out of machines. It's comforting in a way.
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jingle_jangle
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Very comforting to me. When we think that as a society we are losing sight of the totality of values which made us, and upon which we've always relied, the business (and product) integrity of these guitars is reassuring to see.
We're fortunate to be touched by this sort of magic in a world that knows "the price of everything, and the value of nothing", to paraphrase Oscar Wilde.
We're fortunate to be touched by this sort of magic in a world that knows "the price of everything, and the value of nothing", to paraphrase Oscar Wilde.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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atomic_punk
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Interesting to note the microscopic quality checks for Ricky's. I've actually got a 32mm black hair in the lacquer layer of my 360-12 Fireglo. At first I thought I should do something about it, but having seen photographs of factory tours on Voxtalks and the new Ric site, I've been wondering who it belonged to in the Rickenbacker “family”. I’ve grown used to it now and like the human connection with the people who make these beautiful things. I think that the imperfections in life are the very things which make it interesting.
Welcome to The Rickenbacker Forum Mark. Rickenbackers are Head and Shoulders above all others!
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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tony_carey
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