New Film On CHAPMAN For 2006

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:12 am

I like how you lightened it up at the end.

I have a feeling that you don't like me anymore. I don't want it to seem that I'm making an *** out of you, but didn't you say "this is far from the place to debate Hitler"?

My grandfather is a giant history buff. His favorite historical figure is Hitler, hands down. He has plenty of books about him and watches the history channel every day. Hitler is a joke in our family. "Hey, Nat, Hitler's on the history channel!" "What? No! That's a first.." I do not hate my grandfather for admiring Hiter..

I have two views on Hitler. One view is the sick, perverted, insane ******* that killed millions for absolutely nothing. The other view is a kind of admiration of his grip on the German people. The speeches, the VW, helping the men dig in the autobahn one day. He did a lot for those people. But he also did a lot to harm then. I also admire Hitler going to war. Germany made plenty of military advancements during that war.. if they didn't do it, it probably would have taken longer to develop. The jet engine on a plane, rockets, assault rifles. The first two are used for non war situations too.. commercial travel.. space exploration.

Hitler is seen as absolute evil. But as you pointed out earlier, Stalin and Mao killed more people that Adolf. So why is Hitler seen as absolute evil? Stalin had people completely erased. Pictures doctored.. paperwork destroyed. But Hitler is worse for some reason. Hitler tried to have a people exterminated. Stalin starved his own people. Genocide either way.. but Hitler is worse.

I have a feeling that my admiration of Hitler make people think I'm a "white supremacist". I'm not a "white supremacist". All people are equal. I don't march around with a white hood on, yelling "White power!". And I am not "The Emperor" (see bass section).

Honestly, I thought this thread was going to end with "touche`". Guess not.

Rip me apart if you like...

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:27 am

Nate...you're cool, man. I'm choosing to assign a meaning to your use of the word 'respect' by thinking of it as in the phrases: 'I respect a mother grizzly with her cubs', or 'I respect scorpions', or 'I respect Carl Rove'...i.e., I 'respect' anything that by its nature could go off and cause me grave harm...

Kent...your D.C. tour recommendations are equally valuable, but the juxtaposition of the two makes me think once again of the ironies in the way WWII was concluded. Albert Speer, Hitler's architect and the designer of the death camps, spent 30 years in Spandau Prison for his crimes, and rightly so. Werner von Braun, whose rocketry programs killed 5,000 civilians in London and more than 10,000 slave laborers in his 'factory', was brought to America and treated like a hero for the rest of his life. Check out the video of the first Moon landing...there he sits on the front line in Houston, beaming at the camera like he's Thomas Edison and just presented us all with the light bulb. His enshrinement by the American Military-Industrial Complex is one of the biggest travesties of justice of the twentieth century (even worse than O.J.!)...

When you go to the Air and Space Museum, just keep thinking to yourself: 'Triumph of The Will!'
We need, as a society, to stop appropriating concepts and 'talent' from spurious political movements from around the world. 'Homeland Security' makes me want to gag in the same way as Von Braun's American 'career'...'The Homeland' is the phrase used by European colonizers to refer to their 'holdings' in the pre-Mandela Republic of South Africa...

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:59 am

Thanks... I was expecting to be put in my place and ripped apart for respecting Hitler. The way you put respect.. the mother bear and the cubs.. that's exactly what I mean.

von Braun? I've never heard about that. That's awful! I didn't think the US would be that stupid... letting a man off scot free because he helped put men on the moon. Killing 15,000 people does not just go away because people go on the moon.. he should've been put away or killed.

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:24 pm

I'm not an expert on the Von Braun case, but I do know that he made many contributions to our national defense initiatives during the Cold War. Putting an American first on the Moon was only one of many things that Von Braun did for this country. The Soviets would have captured him and turned his expertise in rocket science against us. In the end we got the benefit of the science that he derived during the development of Hitler's V2 rocket program. Was he personally responsible for the war crimes committed by the Nazis? I don't know the answer to that question. Did we benefit from having him on our side after the war? The answer there is definitely, yes.

chingnchime · Post by **chingnchime** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:28 pm

This HAS to be the farthest a topic has drifted in a long time.

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:48 pm

My bad... heh.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:04 pm

There is a huge difference between someone working for and on the side of Germany during WWII (ie: Von Braun and millions of other soldiers and civilian workers) and someone who was one of the movers and shakers of the Nazi party and its extermination policies (ie Speer, and other Hitler henchmen).

Dane... that you choose to turn a discussion of WWII into a minor rant against Bush and the defense of this country from that violently intolerant portion of Islam who are religious whackos and who are very Nazi-like in their own way is (to put it very mildly), an example of where you and I diverge. That you choose to mention Karl Rove and Adolf Hitler in the same breath is pretty low, my friend, and does not paint you in a good light.

But anyways.... it's been interesting. Lets say we all have an ale and be jolly....

Thats Sam Leach (bot) and Dick Matthews (top)

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:11 pm

Backing Davy Jones, Tower Ballroom - 8 Dec 1961

This one would have been pretty interesting. Now where did I put that damned time machine? .... I know I had it around here somewhere.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:24 pm

Cavern '62 - thats Rory Storm on the right... who had a HORRIBLE stutter when he spoke, but not when he sang. Later took his life in a suicide pact with his mother....
hmmmmm... bad stuff.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:29 pm

nice pix of John at the Cavern ... you can almost make out what guitar pick he's using. Funny... in all the Beatle memorabilia I've seen and heard about, I've never come across a John Paul or George guitar pick.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:32 pm

An unflattering shot of Ringo while still with the Hurricanes.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:43 pm

found this... someone's computer interpretation of how John might have looked at age 64.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:42 pm

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:44 pm

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:45 pm