Beatles & Marshalls

revolver323 · Post by **revolver323** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:12 am

Glenn: I saw The Association in 1968, playing the fieldhouse at my college. They used six (6) Shure columns ( 6 X 10s) and three Shure minimixers (four inputs each). It covered the fieldhouse, no problem. Onstage, they had all Fender, one amp each. Best vocal mix I ever heard live.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:08 pm

That's an amazing story, Dave. A similar story would be to check the booklet that comes, if it's still sold, in the boxed set from the Monterry Pop Festival release. There's a shot of someone, maybe the Buffalo Springfield, and you can see the PA. I think it's one of those little Altec systems. One small speaker cab, smaller than a Marshall stack, on either side of the stage, at a relatively large outdoor venue. Well, the bad side of massive PAs would be all the shows we've seen that were too loud for human ears to receive clearly. I don't get that. Overall, the best big stadium sound I heard was Tom Petty shows circa '81-83. One could hear the harmonies and solos, even way back in the crowd. The sounds was under control. As far as empty cabs goes, an perhaps this story has been told on this site, but I read in a Cheap Trick forum that they were touring a few years back and their bassist had several Transonic amps in tow. A guy who worked in the crew in a Vegas Venue heard they were coming to his place and was eager to check them out. But when the amps were unloaded, most said "blown, do not use" on the back. The kiss story doesn't surprise me. Those are ads on their stage, not amps. Their cabs without speakers are sort of a metaphor for their act. There's a big setup and a lot of makeup but no talent inside. They save a lot of gas without speakers in them, between venues.

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:30 pm

Right on, Glenn! If anyone should be an expert on the pros and cons of stacks of amps (real or imaginary) covering the back of a stage, it ought to be a guy named 'Wall'...

winston · Post by **winston** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:45 pm

When I toured with Rory Gallagher he used two amps. A Vox AC30 to tune up his beloved Strat before his set and if memory serves me correctly a black face Fender Twin Reverb for stage. His back up guitar was a Tele. I never saw him play the Tele other than to tune it. No guitar or amp tech in tow and no frills. He was the master of economy. We played some large venues together and that was all he used apart from a couple of pedals that he also economized on.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:19 pm

I had a discussion with a guy I work with. Granted, this guy saw both Beatles Shea shows, most of the Who shows since they played NYC with Murray the K's packages, Hendrix twice, etc., etc. I told him that even at Beatles shows, today 's systems could smother the audience. He disagreed. I'm not one to put forth that the sound of 60 thousand losing their minds was mild at any rate. But I think it was clear years ago that modern PAs could rank right up there with earthquakes and hurricanes when it comes to sheer, awesome power. An army of teenie booppers wouldn't stand a chance against a heavy handed guy with a stack of Crown amps. The Rory story is interesting. Guys like that knew how to keep ticket prices down and quality up. The Eagles must all have their relatives working for them at six figure salaries. I was too old by my major clubbing days to mess with big rigs (did usually tote three guitars, though.) In high school I played out of a Vox Buckingham. But by the time I was playing a lot it was a Princeton, which sound guys liked because it didn't get obnoxious. It was a silver face. I recently bought a '66 P-reverb. I play it with my buddies one or twice a year.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:30 pm

I go out to a local blues jam every wednesday night and a couple Deluxe Reverbs are in use all the time there. A '64 Blackface, and a '73 Silverface modded to blackface specs. The house has about 2000 watts of power in the overheads and monitors, and it is more than enough. We brought my brother Silvertone Twin Twelve 1484 amp down there this last week that I had modified quite a bit. It was a bit too much power at only 30 watts for the venue and was a little cleaner than we would have liked.

And this summer at the local waterfront blues festival, the guy who regularly hosts the jam at this club was playing with his band and used a '59 Bassman that was dimed. This was a large outdoor show with all the equipment like you would see at Lollapalooza or something, and the Bassman was completely adequate. It makes me laugh to see guys buy these 100 watt Boogies and Marshalls for bedroom use!

revolver323 · Post by **revolver323** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:57 am

Glenn: My bands used to play clubs with two Traynor columns and a Bogan 50 watt amp, using the shure minimixer to run four mics for vocals. No instrument mics, No monitors. I had a 50 watt Bassman top with two JBL 15s, guitarist had a Deluxe Reverb, organist a Vox with a Bassman 2 x15. We could always hear our vocals and each other. This was 1967-68. Within two years most of the local bands had gone over to the 4560 15" horn loaded bass cabs with a JBL horn on top and at least 400 watt power amps. By this time I was running an Acoustic 360 bottom for bass and most of the guitarist had Marshall stacks. We had monitors, but we couldn't hear a thing. The clubs hadn't gotten bigger, but the sound systems had. Soon the norm was two 4560s on each side and bigger horns. The crazies had even bigger stuff in clubs that were 30 feet wide by 100 feet long with 8 foot ceilings. I haven't been in a bar recently, but it seems most of the older guys have learned to use small amps and keep the stage volume down. I don't know about the younger guys. I saw Tony Levin Band in a small cub two years ago, sat about five feet from the stage. Sound was bearable there, but 10 feet further back, the P.A. was melting eardrums. Sometimes I think in-ear monitors are a bad thing for the audience in small venues. Maybe I'll start a tribute band using period equipment and a small P.A. Imagine that -- a band's entire rig in a Chevy minivan again!!!

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:17 am

Way cool. I'm sorry to say that when I was in high school I paid $150 for what I later learned was a '68 Deluxe Reverb (yes, it had the trim around the grill) with a stock JBL in it. I trashed that amp and it's long gone.) The PA stories are great. I read somewhere, I think it was Cheap Trick's bassist, commenting on the subwoofer mixes at clubs now. He was like "what's with the kick drum mix through your brain thing?" Of course, it's the rap 'n roll influence. Or are all the young guys are coming up with computer speaker systems with lots of subwoofer?

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:29 am

At a recent gig in a small local club, we discovered during the first tune that there was a subwoofer located beneath the front of the stage...my wife plays drums in the band, and while she's does a great job at all times back there, her kick drum has never sounded like Bonham's...but it did that night, which is kind of ridiculous in the context of our music. From talking to friends in the audience later, it seems that the sound in the room was fine, but we were having our internal organs pummelled for the entire set. I said something to the sound man after the first tune, but he replied through the monitors that 'that's just the way it is'...

Visiting the can right before playing used to be a good idea...now it's a necessity. Unless you want to add a whole new meaning to 'going onstage'...

chingnchime · Post by **chingnchime** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:52 am

I recently saw the Beach Boys at an outside venue here in SoCal. The kid doing the out front mix had the kick drum WAY up and in context w/ the Beach Boys material, it sounded ridiculous. Of course, NO ONE stepped forward to complain, and the sunsoaked crowd seemed oblivious. I'm guessing the BBs were too cheap to provide their own soundman, and this kid was just doing what he does w/ all the rapcrap in the clubs. A couple of times i thought about protesting, but I'm sure he would've ignored me.

qmoder · Post by **qmoder** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:09 pm

I started with a silvertone. My next amp was a 66Bassman. I wanted the Marshall stack.
I played against a few with the Bassman and it seemed to keep up just fine. Later I finally got to run thru a Marshall stack.
It was then I realized that I already had the sound and amp that I needed. I have still have that Bassman.
But mostly now I run thru a Deluxe Reverb and A/B it with a Pro Jr. Most of the time the Deluxe Reverb is set up the bass and treble wide open with the volume or four to five.
The Pro Jr. is my nasty solo amp with its volume and tone controls dimed to the max.
I have a monster Pa. It totals out to a bit over 25 and eight thousand watts for mains and monitors if pushed to the max. But all of that is for outdoor jobs only. Most of the time its two mains and two monitors.
But you can still take my Tone Master and Twin A/B them together and drown out the vocals with out even mic'ing the guitar amps. But thats a bit crazy hence the Deluxe Reverb and Pro Jr. mini stack.
I too get sick of bands with the monster wattage on the subs when all you hear is the kick drum mic'ed to the hilt and it pounds you thru out the performance. I only use 1400 watts on subs out of that 8000.
Every time I go to hear any band and don't get killed by the subs and the kick drum. I make it a point to go up to the soundman and thank him for a job well done.