This article by Bill Harry should spark a debate!
Part 1
The North-South divide in Britain is not so obvious as it was in the days of the Mersey Sound. There was a definite and strong feeling in the north that Southerners had all the benefits and maintained control of the country. Some Southerners regarded Northerners as people who wore clogs and lived in slum properties. There was also a hint of antagonism in the relationship between the two areas of Britain.
It was a major feat for any artist from the provinces to make a name in the music industry unless they decamped to London and were taken over by London-based managers or agents. Liverpool artists such as Billy Fury and Johnny Gentle, for instance, were 'controlled' by impresario Larry Parnes. In those days there were no motorways and it was an eight-hour journey from Liverpool to London - and a major trek from Glasgow or Newcastle. With Mersey Beat I tried to capture London's attention with editorials such as 'London - Take A Look Up North!'
When the Beatles turned the British music industry upside down, they created a gap in the London power base through which a host of artists from the provinces passed through - from Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle and Manchester. Then London closed the gap once again.
The Grades were the most powerful show-business family Britain has ever known. Lou Grade had his power base in television with ATV, his brother Bernard Delfont not only ran the Moss Empires theatre chain, but 'Sunday Night At The London Palladium'. the premier television entertainment show and also 'The Royal Variety Show', whilst their other association with the Harold Davidson empire controlled the agency and management contracts of the majority of star names in film, television and record. It was a case of having the power to make or break a name. In addition, the national press was based in London, as was the entire musical press (until Mersey Beat came along), together with all the record companies, music publishing companies, the BBC radio and television, offices of Radio Luxembourg and so on. It was not unnatural for the London press to want to see these Northern upstairs fade away and they quickly sought a London-based replacement.
Initially it was the Dave Clark Five. When 'Glad All Over' hit the No.1 spot there was media saturation. The Daily Express headlined: 'Tottenham Sound Has Crushed The Beatles' and the London Evening Standard published cartoons dismissing the Beatles as old fashioned.
Then, of course, it was the Rolling Stones - who, ironically, got their recording break via the Beatles. I was looking through an old issue of the Star Club News, published in August 1965. I contributed a column each issue free of charge in exchange for Manfred Weissleder providing me with colour transparencies of the Beatles performing at the Star Club. The item read: "Three Mersey outfits failed to get singles into the charts because they couldn't get any major television promotion. The Big Three recorded 'Bring It On Home To Me', Chick Graham & the Coasters recorded 'A Little You' and the Escorts recorded 'I Don't Want To Go On Without You'. Some months later the Animals, Freddie & the Dreamers and the Moody Blues had hits with the same numbers. Although those groups came from Newcastle, Manchester and Birmingham, as far as the media were concerned, they didn't come from Liverpool.
Did London Sabotage the Mersey Sound?
Did London Sabotage the Mersey Sound?
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
Part 2
It reminded me of the suspicion I had at the time. There may well have been an understanding between London A&R men and the capital's media to undermine the impact of Mersey group in favour of returning London to the forefront of the music business.
Certainly, talented Liverpool groups did find it difficult to receive any promotion once the initial euphoria surrounding the Beatles and Brian Epstein's stable of acts had settled.
London was the centre of the music business and there was a degree of resentment about the attention which had been given to the Mersey music scene. I know of a Liverpool manager of a stable of acts who was paid a large sum by a London agent for his acts - who were then virtually never heard of again. I had the feeling that the Liverpool scene had not been allowed to flourish as it should.
The talent remained in Liverpool, but it was simply condemned to isolation once more when London regained control of the music business. Yet whenever recording managers did take an interest it Liverpool, they always found it overflowing with talent. I continued to feel that Liverpool acts from the Mersey era could have continued to spin out hits for the rest of the decade, but they were literally sabotaged.
Let us look at a few examples:
Lee Curtis was signed to Decca and recorded 'Let's Stomp', the Bobby Comstock number that was popular with the group's fans. Yet the Decca A&R man sabotaged the number by forcing Lee to repeat the words 'Let's Stomp' a total of 36 times, which Lee felt ruined the recording and stripped it on any commercial impact. He was right, you only have to listen to the number to realize that a potential hit was rendered ridiculous by the endless repetition of the two words.
Lee then wanted to record 'Twist and Shout', but Decca refused, and later the same company made sure Brian Poole & the Tremeloes released the number and they topped the charts with it. Lee's group asked if they could record 'Money', but Decca refused to let Lee record it and later released the number by another of their Southern acts, Bern Elliot & the Fenmen.
Curtis then asked Decca if he could record 'Shout.' Decca refused and later released a single of 'Shout' with Lulu & the Luvvers, which established Lulu's career. Lee next requested that he be allowed to record 'It's Only Make Believe', but Decca once again refused and later released a version by Billy Fury, which charted.
It reminded me of the suspicion I had at the time. There may well have been an understanding between London A&R men and the capital's media to undermine the impact of Mersey group in favour of returning London to the forefront of the music business.
Certainly, talented Liverpool groups did find it difficult to receive any promotion once the initial euphoria surrounding the Beatles and Brian Epstein's stable of acts had settled.
London was the centre of the music business and there was a degree of resentment about the attention which had been given to the Mersey music scene. I know of a Liverpool manager of a stable of acts who was paid a large sum by a London agent for his acts - who were then virtually never heard of again. I had the feeling that the Liverpool scene had not been allowed to flourish as it should.
The talent remained in Liverpool, but it was simply condemned to isolation once more when London regained control of the music business. Yet whenever recording managers did take an interest it Liverpool, they always found it overflowing with talent. I continued to feel that Liverpool acts from the Mersey era could have continued to spin out hits for the rest of the decade, but they were literally sabotaged.
Let us look at a few examples:
Lee Curtis was signed to Decca and recorded 'Let's Stomp', the Bobby Comstock number that was popular with the group's fans. Yet the Decca A&R man sabotaged the number by forcing Lee to repeat the words 'Let's Stomp' a total of 36 times, which Lee felt ruined the recording and stripped it on any commercial impact. He was right, you only have to listen to the number to realize that a potential hit was rendered ridiculous by the endless repetition of the two words.
Lee then wanted to record 'Twist and Shout', but Decca refused, and later the same company made sure Brian Poole & the Tremeloes released the number and they topped the charts with it. Lee's group asked if they could record 'Money', but Decca refused to let Lee record it and later released the number by another of their Southern acts, Bern Elliot & the Fenmen.
Curtis then asked Decca if he could record 'Shout.' Decca refused and later released a single of 'Shout' with Lulu & the Luvvers, which established Lulu's career. Lee next requested that he be allowed to record 'It's Only Make Believe', but Decca once again refused and later released a version by Billy Fury, which charted.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
Part 3
The Undertakers had similar problems when they signed with Pye and Tony Hatch was appointed their A&R manager. They wanted 'Mashed Potatoes' to be the 'A' side of their debut disc, but Pye refused and put it on the 'B' side, when it was obviously a stronger number than 'Everybody Loves A Lover.' They next wanted to record 'Money', but Pye refused and made them record 'What About Us?' As mentioned, Southern group Bern Elliot & the Fenmen then recorded 'Money' and earned themselves a Top 20 hit.
Finally, Tony Hatch allowed the Undertakers to pick their own 'A' side, but only after Pye had forced them to truncate their name to the 'Takers. They recorded 'If You Don't Come Back' which began to sell in quantities enough to edge them towards the charts - but it was issued around the Holiday period for the record plant, and production of the record ceased, making it impossible for them to have a chart hit.
I was amazed at some of the decisions taken by A&R men
Liverpool was the largest market for Tamla Motown records in the early 1960s and Mersey groups adapted Motown numbers to their own style in what we called 'the Mersey Motown Sound.'
I attended the recording session in London when Faron's Flamingos recorded a blistering version of 'Do You Love Me,' which they'd arranged and adapted from the Contours, a Motown vocal act. When the tapes were played back, everyone was convinced that Faron's Flamingos would have a major chart hit and be on their way to establishing themselves nationally. Imagine the group's dismay when the record company put it on the 'B' side to a number called 'See If She Cares' and Faron's 'Do You Love Me' never got an airing.
Then Brian Poole & the Tremeloes and the Dave Clark Five recorded it, with the Tremeloes topping the charts and Dave Clark entering the Top Ten for the first time. Anyone listening to the versions can tell that they are basically copies of the Faron's Flamingos record and are quite unlike the original Contours version.
The Flamingos were so devastated that they disbanded. Everyone agrees that the Big Three were one of Liverpool's greatest groups - but even their debut disc was sabotaged.
As detailed on 'The Big Three Story' elsewhere on the site, Decca refused to allow them to record 'Some Other Guy' at a proper recording session and issued a substandard version from a test recording.
There are numerous other examples of such treatment Liverpool groups received at the hands of London recording companies but what no-one can take away from Liverpool is the amazing chart record of 1963 when Liverpool acts held the No.1 spot in the British charts for 36 weeks.
Further notes: Oddly enough, there is a perception with some people in Liverpool today that if you actually leave Merseyside you are some sort of deserter. In an interview in recent years Allan Williams referred to me as a 'plastic Scouser' because I live in London. I suppose that makes the Beatles, Cilla Black and many others 'plastic Scousers.' They went into the world and spread the word.
I live in London, have been PR for artists such as David Bowie and Led Zeppelin, but have continued to promote Mersey talent in articles and books throughout the years. Joe Fagin also lives in London and has had chart hits; Gibson Kemp lives outside London but had been a record executive in Germany, Australian and Britain; Howie Casey lives in Southampton. Adrian Barber lives in Hawaii and has recorded artists such as Aerosmith and the Allman Brothers Band; Chris Huston in Nashville builds recording studios all over the world for clients such as Aaron Spelling; Brian Griffiths, one of Liverpool's premier guitarists, lives in Canada, as does Terry Sylvester; Les Chadwick of Gerry & the Pacemakers and Vic Wright of Vic & the Spidermen live in Australia. Members of Liverpool groups are living in Portugal, Germany, Australia, America, Canada - in the four corners of the world, so to speak - 'plastic Scousers' all! We should be proud of them.
The Undertakers had similar problems when they signed with Pye and Tony Hatch was appointed their A&R manager. They wanted 'Mashed Potatoes' to be the 'A' side of their debut disc, but Pye refused and put it on the 'B' side, when it was obviously a stronger number than 'Everybody Loves A Lover.' They next wanted to record 'Money', but Pye refused and made them record 'What About Us?' As mentioned, Southern group Bern Elliot & the Fenmen then recorded 'Money' and earned themselves a Top 20 hit.
Finally, Tony Hatch allowed the Undertakers to pick their own 'A' side, but only after Pye had forced them to truncate their name to the 'Takers. They recorded 'If You Don't Come Back' which began to sell in quantities enough to edge them towards the charts - but it was issued around the Holiday period for the record plant, and production of the record ceased, making it impossible for them to have a chart hit.
I was amazed at some of the decisions taken by A&R men
Liverpool was the largest market for Tamla Motown records in the early 1960s and Mersey groups adapted Motown numbers to their own style in what we called 'the Mersey Motown Sound.'
I attended the recording session in London when Faron's Flamingos recorded a blistering version of 'Do You Love Me,' which they'd arranged and adapted from the Contours, a Motown vocal act. When the tapes were played back, everyone was convinced that Faron's Flamingos would have a major chart hit and be on their way to establishing themselves nationally. Imagine the group's dismay when the record company put it on the 'B' side to a number called 'See If She Cares' and Faron's 'Do You Love Me' never got an airing.
Then Brian Poole & the Tremeloes and the Dave Clark Five recorded it, with the Tremeloes topping the charts and Dave Clark entering the Top Ten for the first time. Anyone listening to the versions can tell that they are basically copies of the Faron's Flamingos record and are quite unlike the original Contours version.
The Flamingos were so devastated that they disbanded. Everyone agrees that the Big Three were one of Liverpool's greatest groups - but even their debut disc was sabotaged.
As detailed on 'The Big Three Story' elsewhere on the site, Decca refused to allow them to record 'Some Other Guy' at a proper recording session and issued a substandard version from a test recording.
There are numerous other examples of such treatment Liverpool groups received at the hands of London recording companies but what no-one can take away from Liverpool is the amazing chart record of 1963 when Liverpool acts held the No.1 spot in the British charts for 36 weeks.
Further notes: Oddly enough, there is a perception with some people in Liverpool today that if you actually leave Merseyside you are some sort of deserter. In an interview in recent years Allan Williams referred to me as a 'plastic Scouser' because I live in London. I suppose that makes the Beatles, Cilla Black and many others 'plastic Scousers.' They went into the world and spread the word.
I live in London, have been PR for artists such as David Bowie and Led Zeppelin, but have continued to promote Mersey talent in articles and books throughout the years. Joe Fagin also lives in London and has had chart hits; Gibson Kemp lives outside London but had been a record executive in Germany, Australian and Britain; Howie Casey lives in Southampton. Adrian Barber lives in Hawaii and has recorded artists such as Aerosmith and the Allman Brothers Band; Chris Huston in Nashville builds recording studios all over the world for clients such as Aaron Spelling; Brian Griffiths, one of Liverpool's premier guitarists, lives in Canada, as does Terry Sylvester; Les Chadwick of Gerry & the Pacemakers and Vic Wright of Vic & the Spidermen live in Australia. Members of Liverpool groups are living in Portugal, Germany, Australia, America, Canada - in the four corners of the world, so to speak - 'plastic Scousers' all! We should be proud of them.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
A very interesting article Brian and he does make some valid arguments, there are some though, based on articles I have read and not my view, who feel that BH is a bitter man because he feels he wasn't given the recognition he was due in the place of Merseybeat History.
Up until The Beatles came along the UK chart were virtually dominated by American Acts with the odd exception of course.
London commercially was the centre of the record industry the two I's coffee bar having its place in pop history in a similar way to the cavern in some respects.
BH clearly is in a better position to comment than I am but his facts not totally accurate, Dave Clark Five did not have a top ten hit with Do You Love Me it only made number 30, he neglects to point out that Lulu and The Luvvers were from Glasgow which somehow negates the bias towards Lee Curtis because he was from Liverpool.
Many of the names he cities as moving to London or elsewhere did so years after their claim to fame had diminished so to speak.
He is correct about the perception about "deserter" as some feel that artists such as Cilla Black, who has lived in London since the mid sixties, plays too much on the Liverpool Connection considering she left the place 40 years ago.
Lennon and Starr deserted England never mind Liverpool.
Still I would always respect the views of such as BH because he was there!!!
Up until The Beatles came along the UK chart were virtually dominated by American Acts with the odd exception of course.
London commercially was the centre of the record industry the two I's coffee bar having its place in pop history in a similar way to the cavern in some respects.
BH clearly is in a better position to comment than I am but his facts not totally accurate, Dave Clark Five did not have a top ten hit with Do You Love Me it only made number 30, he neglects to point out that Lulu and The Luvvers were from Glasgow which somehow negates the bias towards Lee Curtis because he was from Liverpool.
Many of the names he cities as moving to London or elsewhere did so years after their claim to fame had diminished so to speak.
He is correct about the perception about "deserter" as some feel that artists such as Cilla Black, who has lived in London since the mid sixties, plays too much on the Liverpool Connection considering she left the place 40 years ago.
Lennon and Starr deserted England never mind Liverpool.
Still I would always respect the views of such as BH because he was there!!!
TODAY'S THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE
If there is some truth to his conjecture it might explain why so many artists were not allowed to record and release songs of their choice.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
London's sabotaged major portions of the planet for the last few centuries...I don't know why they'd stop at Mersey...
(Count on me, baby. Oh...was that not the debate you wanted to spark? Well, we could even it out and bring up what Washington's sabotaged...and if you want to keep it strictly artistic, check out Zappa's testimony in the PMRC hearings...)
(Count on me, baby. Oh...was that not the debate you wanted to spark? Well, we could even it out and bring up what Washington's sabotaged...and if you want to keep it strictly artistic, check out Zappa's testimony in the PMRC hearings...)
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
That's an interesting observation Dane, but as you no doubt read, the focus of Bill Harrys article was the established music industry in London . I don't recall that particular industry being involved in colonial pursuits, unless you count the "British Invasion" in the 60s in that category? LOL
It's always fun to hear from you. I will check out the Frank Zappa testimony. I happen to think that Frank had an interesting view of what was going on in the good ol' USA during his life span. Thanks for the info.
It's always fun to hear from you. I will check out the Frank Zappa testimony. I happen to think that Frank had an interesting view of what was going on in the good ol' USA during his life span. Thanks for the info.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
Well you know if there was a bias in the equation, over time that strategy actually did not work out too well for the music industry in London. Most of the bands that I really liked during that time in history came from the North.
Of course the Rolling Stones are a probably the most successful surviving band from that era but I wonder how many other Southern British bands have endured to a similar degree?
Of course the Rolling Stones are a probably the most successful surviving band from that era but I wonder how many other Southern British bands have endured to a similar degree?
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
By 1965 the bands that were selling the most records were writing their own songs. (Beatles, Stones, The who, Kinks, Hollies, Small faces, Dylan etc) where as the vast majority of Mersey bands depended on cover versions. I believe that this was the main facture in the down fall of them.
The record buying public simply preferred bands that wrote their own material.
From Rob
The record buying public simply preferred bands that wrote their own material.
From Rob
Well...I guess I was saying there are lots of ways music/musicians from smaller scenes get pushed around, co-opted or squashed by larger scenes...
Kinda the way o' the world.
Brian: many viewed it as an 'invasion', but there were many (perhaps more) of us who considered it a 'liberation'. Some of us used to rush to the tarmac to throw flowers, if you'll recall...
Kinda the way o' the world.
Brian: many viewed it as an 'invasion', but there were many (perhaps more) of us who considered it a 'liberation'. Some of us used to rush to the tarmac to throw flowers, if you'll recall...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
Something tells me in some time might be Chinese, Dane... oops... going off topic again... sorry.
Back to BI, though... not strictly, but... were there any famous bands from Liverpool after the 60s? i can't recall any off the top of my head...
Back to BI, though... not strictly, but... were there any famous bands from Liverpool after the 60s? i can't recall any off the top of my head...
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.