Level Crown & Polish Quesions
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Level Crown & Polish Quesions
Ask the curmudgeon. He will know the answer to your question.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
Daniel, I guess your post got moved to the Curmudgeons section. Anyway as I said Paul will likely know the answer on this one
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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jingle_jangle
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And Peter so graciously moved it, like a good Genie would!
I welcome Dale's comments on his own method on this, as he worked at Electro before it was RIC, and he's done a lot of these over the years.
When you talk about "level, crown, and polish", you're speaking my language, because Polish is my last name, too, you know...
Anyhow, as far as Rickenbacker instruments are concerned, you can level and polish, but crowning can often be an exercise in futility, depending upon how old the guitar is and how thickly the fretboard was varnished at the factory. There is also the issue of how much levelling the guitar took when it was first built. I've seen a good deal of variance in the width of the fret tops, and because of the varnish creeping up the fret sides, even from the factory, the frets are not "crowned" in the traditional sense--they're simply levelled with as little as it takes to bring them consistent with the fretboard curvature (a 6" radius on earlier models!), and polished with fine abrasive paper. There is no "crowning", or rounding of the fret tops, which takes place. This is usually done--on non-finished fretboards--to reduce the contact point of the string to the fret to a theoretical single point.
In truth, on a guitar like a Les Paul with jumbo frets, this point of contact is actually an arc of contact, depending upon how firmly the string is pressed against the board and fret.
On a Rickenbacker, the top of the fret is flat for all practical purposes, so the string's contact is usually with the edge of the fret, and along the flat. This does lead to some fret sizzle, most noticeable on 12-strings when played unplugged, nearly undetectable in the rush of luscious harmonics when the guitar is plugged in.
In the case of your guitar, you need to procure a sanding block with a 6" radius to do a good job. This presents a problem, as your guitar most likely has a 6" radius fretboard, and the smallest radius bock available commercially is 7.25". I made my own; perhaps Dale or another member knows of a source. This block should be 3" wide to accept commercially-available sandpaper, which is either self-adhesive, or stuck on with 3M #77 spray glue. My own preference is for blocks about 6" long; longer ones are sold but I find their cumbersome size to actually be a hindrance to accuracy.
The strings should be removed and the truss rods adjusted to render the fretboard absolutely straight. Now you can begin to sand, moving the block in the long direction, and using #320 or #360 paper. When the frets are consistently shiny with no string grooves, move on to #600 paper. If the fret shows more than .040" (1mm) of bright, flat surface, you will have to refret. It should show half that, ideally.
It is possible to then take a CSCC with fine polishing compound and shine up each fret. The compound will also clean any grunge from the fret/board intersection and polish the fretboard varnish, too. Most older Ricks can benefit from this action, appearance-wise.
In the case of a guitar with very thin varnish on the fretboard, you may be able to crown the frets ever so slightly if they exhibit too much flat spot on the tops, but you must take care not to cut into the varnish on either side of the frets, which means purchasing an expensive, dedicated concave fret crowning file as opposed to working with a flat file to create a crown, which I don't advise for the amateur anyway.
I welcome Dale's comments on his own method on this, as he worked at Electro before it was RIC, and he's done a lot of these over the years.
When you talk about "level, crown, and polish", you're speaking my language, because Polish is my last name, too, you know...
Anyhow, as far as Rickenbacker instruments are concerned, you can level and polish, but crowning can often be an exercise in futility, depending upon how old the guitar is and how thickly the fretboard was varnished at the factory. There is also the issue of how much levelling the guitar took when it was first built. I've seen a good deal of variance in the width of the fret tops, and because of the varnish creeping up the fret sides, even from the factory, the frets are not "crowned" in the traditional sense--they're simply levelled with as little as it takes to bring them consistent with the fretboard curvature (a 6" radius on earlier models!), and polished with fine abrasive paper. There is no "crowning", or rounding of the fret tops, which takes place. This is usually done--on non-finished fretboards--to reduce the contact point of the string to the fret to a theoretical single point.
In truth, on a guitar like a Les Paul with jumbo frets, this point of contact is actually an arc of contact, depending upon how firmly the string is pressed against the board and fret.
On a Rickenbacker, the top of the fret is flat for all practical purposes, so the string's contact is usually with the edge of the fret, and along the flat. This does lead to some fret sizzle, most noticeable on 12-strings when played unplugged, nearly undetectable in the rush of luscious harmonics when the guitar is plugged in.
In the case of your guitar, you need to procure a sanding block with a 6" radius to do a good job. This presents a problem, as your guitar most likely has a 6" radius fretboard, and the smallest radius bock available commercially is 7.25". I made my own; perhaps Dale or another member knows of a source. This block should be 3" wide to accept commercially-available sandpaper, which is either self-adhesive, or stuck on with 3M #77 spray glue. My own preference is for blocks about 6" long; longer ones are sold but I find their cumbersome size to actually be a hindrance to accuracy.
The strings should be removed and the truss rods adjusted to render the fretboard absolutely straight. Now you can begin to sand, moving the block in the long direction, and using #320 or #360 paper. When the frets are consistently shiny with no string grooves, move on to #600 paper. If the fret shows more than .040" (1mm) of bright, flat surface, you will have to refret. It should show half that, ideally.
It is possible to then take a CSCC with fine polishing compound and shine up each fret. The compound will also clean any grunge from the fret/board intersection and polish the fretboard varnish, too. Most older Ricks can benefit from this action, appearance-wise.
In the case of a guitar with very thin varnish on the fretboard, you may be able to crown the frets ever so slightly if they exhibit too much flat spot on the tops, but you must take care not to cut into the varnish on either side of the frets, which means purchasing an expensive, dedicated concave fret crowning file as opposed to working with a flat file to create a crown, which I don't advise for the amateur anyway.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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jingle_jangle
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The levelling can be done with a flat block, but this requires some finesse and could, if applied too vigorously, lead to the need for a refret.
Following all this mumbo-jumbo, the guitar needs to be restrung and the truss rods readjusted to give the preferred amount of flatness or relief. It may be possible to fiddle the action a bit if desired, but the "before LCP" setting should be used as your base.
Following all this mumbo-jumbo, the guitar needs to be restrung and the truss rods readjusted to give the preferred amount of flatness or relief. It may be possible to fiddle the action a bit if desired, but the "before LCP" setting should be used as your base.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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dale_fortune
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LC&P frets: Use Blue Tape to mask off the C.V. areas between the frets after removing the strings. Adjust the T.R.s so the finger board is as level as possible. I have a 3 inch wide steel block that is 2 inches thick and 6 inches long used for leveling the fret tops with 400 grit wet dry paper. It is a must to use a perfect straight edge to check the levelness of the F.B. while you are doing this at all stages. Use long strokes and sideways motions to take out all the wear marks on the fret tops. Then use a fret crown file to re-arc the fret tops. Use a small amount of light oil(3 in 1) on the file as you make your strokes on the fret tops. After they are crowned, then use 600 grit and 800 grit to re-level the fret tops. A small polishing wheel on a hand held drill with white buffing compound will bring the frets to a high luster. Remove the Blue Tape and clean off the residue with Naptha on a cotton cloth. Tighten T.R.'s slightly. Restring to pitch, readjust T.R.'s and bridge, set intonation and recheck T.R.'s. Readjust if necessary.
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jingle_jangle
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Thanks, Dale. I knew you'd come through.
Daniel, note that Dale has a method that works just as well, and is closer to the "accepted" method that luthiers use for other guitars with non-varnished fretboards.
Also note that he uses a flat block, which requires a fair amount of finesse in order to not change the radius of the frets.
Commonalities of technique include:
1. The need to have the neck absolutely straight before beginning the levelling process
2. The technique of handling the block, and the size of the block used for levelling (materials vary--I use a hardwood block, Dale a steel block). Steel has a nice mass to it and the weight of the block, coupled with the mass, makes quick work of levelling.
3. The process of polishing the frets, from 400, to 600 and then 800 grit Wet or Dry paper (used dry).
4. Crowning, which I regard as optional depending upon the amount of varnish present on the fret sides. Dale does it, period, and I do if the varnish will permit.
5. Polishing, which Dale does with a drill motor and a polishing wheel (Cratex? Felt buff?), and I do by hand, polishing the fretboard varnish at the same time.
6. The necessity of re-setting the neck tension after stringing up, and checking and re-setting action and intonation.
You can see that there are some specialized tools involved: The blocks, the crowning file, and the drill motor. The rest is hardware store stuff.
Daniel, note that Dale has a method that works just as well, and is closer to the "accepted" method that luthiers use for other guitars with non-varnished fretboards.
Also note that he uses a flat block, which requires a fair amount of finesse in order to not change the radius of the frets.
Commonalities of technique include:
1. The need to have the neck absolutely straight before beginning the levelling process
2. The technique of handling the block, and the size of the block used for levelling (materials vary--I use a hardwood block, Dale a steel block). Steel has a nice mass to it and the weight of the block, coupled with the mass, makes quick work of levelling.
3. The process of polishing the frets, from 400, to 600 and then 800 grit Wet or Dry paper (used dry).
4. Crowning, which I regard as optional depending upon the amount of varnish present on the fret sides. Dale does it, period, and I do if the varnish will permit.
5. Polishing, which Dale does with a drill motor and a polishing wheel (Cratex? Felt buff?), and I do by hand, polishing the fretboard varnish at the same time.
6. The necessity of re-setting the neck tension after stringing up, and checking and re-setting action and intonation.
You can see that there are some specialized tools involved: The blocks, the crowning file, and the drill motor. The rest is hardware store stuff.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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jingle_jangle
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Don't use steel wool. Remove the blue tape, get an old undershirt, and use some fine polishing compound. Wrap the cloth around your forefinger, dip it into the compound and polish away.
This will clean and polish the frets, clean the crevices on either side of the frets, and a few extra strokes will have you polishing the fretboard varnish as well. You'll be surprised at how much nicotine old Ricks have embedded in the varnish of their fretboards...
This will clean and polish the frets, clean the crevices on either side of the frets, and a few extra strokes will have you polishing the fretboard varnish as well. You'll be surprised at how much nicotine old Ricks have embedded in the varnish of their fretboards...
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut