How often does this happen to Rick basses?

bigbajo60 · Post by **bigbajo60** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 3:32 pm

I'll use this eBay item to illustrate the question:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=930298779&category=4713
If you read the post and take a look at the back of the instrument, you'll see the body wings starting to come unglued from the neck.
Aside from the fact that this particular bass was "dropped on it's neck", has anybody here ever had this happen to one of their Rick basses?
Same question about the headstock wings... has anybody ever seen those come unglued?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:13 pm

This is pretty rare ... the most common cause is refinishing and using too strong of a paint stripper that not only removes paint but removes glue as well ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:18 pm

I am an architect and I deal with structures and materials such as wood ... Glue laminated beams are stronger than solid wood beams ... if the glueing is done right the glue joint is stronger than the surrounding wood.

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:16 am

Jeff's right. I've always been told that a good glue joint was stonger than the wood.

Think of all the g*****s with glued necks (L** P***'s for example) with no problems. The string tension can be pretty enormous: I've seen old acoustics with cracked wood heels (following the grain) due to years of heavy string tension.

The separated "wings" of that bass concern me. Even if sustain is not affected much, I'd be worried about it causing dead notes etc., not to mention the separation worsening.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:27 am

That sure looks scary !
Will the body fall apart some day?

Since a well glued joint can be stronger than the wood,
in what way can it affect the sound of a bass/guitar?i.e.
What's the difference in the sounds of a glue-in necked 4001 and a neck-thru-body 4001?

Anybody care to shed some light?

jblakey · Post by **jblakey** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:39 pm

It looks to me that it is not a matter of it coming unglued but that it (the drop) cracked both wings. The glue appears to have held. The crack is not straight and parallel...though it starts at the glued joints, it flows outward as if following the grain. This is how I see the problem on the back.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:42 pm

To answer the original topic heading, it doesn't happen at all unless the bass has been abused.

I doubt if this one was just accidentally dropped only once, I'll bet it was subject to repeated deliberate abuse.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:51 pm

If you buy a bass with cracks or a crooked neck you are buying a problem ...

The question is how bad is the problem?

Can it be fixed by a pro???

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:24 am

Chris Squire had the headstock broken off of his famous 60's 4001 ... he had it successfully repaired ...

banta · Post by **banta** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 4:29 am

Dropping the guitar on its neck would not cause that to happen.

Either:
The neck and/or body maple was not sufficiently dry when glued, or
The neck and body wings were not perfectly smoothed through a jointer before attached, or
The glue was not applied properly, or
The cracks are actually in the wood, not the joint.

If the glued joint was properly set, you could not break the neck apart from a body wing on the joint. The wood itself would break first. This looks like a Rickenbacker production mistake.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:42 am

Brad, I disagree. Like Joel said above, if you look closely, it starts at the glue joint but follows the grain. The bass otherwise does not look well cared for, and it admittedly has been dropped. My guess is that this was smashed on stage, on purpose. Abuse is never the manufacturer's fault.

rob · Post by **rob** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:24 am

It looks to me like it would be good for spare parts, and (Gulp) Firewood. It's such a shame to waste such a thing.

banta · Post by **banta** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:41 am

Well Dave, you can disagree all you want. The fact is that a glue joint will NOT come apart from abuse alone. As I said, the glue joint will be far stronger than the wood if done properly, and with adequately seasoned wood. Anyone with any woodworking experience will confirm that.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:22 am

Guys, my 1972 4001LH exhibits the same 'problem' as this ebay bass does, but IMHO it is not from abuse of the instrument, but rather an instance of improper curing of the wings, or mis-alignment of the wood when fitted...I am not the original owner of the bass but it hasn't been abused, and has its original Mapleglo finish..No problems with playability whatsoever.

It also looks as though it will not get progressively worse either.... My .02....

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 2:06 pm

Brad, I'm fifty-five and I've been working with wood since childhood. You're welcome to disagree all you want, but you are mistaken.

I'll give you just one example: hide glue joints can be steamed apart. If someone puts an instrument in a sauna, the joints may well come unglued. That's_not_a manufacturing defect, that's abuse. It's using an instrument in a manner clearly not intended by the maker.

Some other glues are water resistant but have low shock resistance. Not all glue joints are stronget than the wood.

Fact is, you have no evidence of a manufacturing defect here. Even if the bass had not admittedly been dropped, the photo evidence says it's been treated harshly. So there's no reason to even suspect it's Rickenbacker's fault.