Microphone Placement

oreca · Post by **oreca** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:49 am

I want to start off by saying that this is a great idea for a new discussion forum! Thanks to Tony and Peter [Insert thumbs up!]

Anyways, sometimes I find myself recording myself. Of course I could use a few tips!

My setup is fairly simple, I have my computer here and I plug-in my 20$ microphone in my sound card and press record in Adobe Audition 1.5 and that's about it at this point.

Don't laugh but this is how I set my microphone up: I take my guitar stand, and wrap the lead around the top where the neck usually lies and my mic will hang down from it.

I put that about 2-4 feet away from my guitar amp, and 2-4 feet away from the electronic drum running through a much smaller amp.

I'll usually record a rhythm track along with the electronic drum working and this technique surprisingly seems to do the trick to achieve a nice balance between the two. I don't want that nasty electric drum too loud!

To record overdubs, like leads I have no idea what I should do. There must be a better way to set up that mic into place with what I've got here!

I haven't gotten into voice recording but I figure I would hold up the mic like any normal singer would do and simply record my voice like that...

Basically I'm a newbie in recording, never really read anything about it, I'm just working on instincts (like the Beatles maybe? haha) so any help is welcomed!

Sorry for the long and unorganized post, I haven't slept last night!

shinynewtoy · Post by **shinynewtoy** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:36 am

My best advice would be to get a mic stand, preferably one with an adjustable boom. The better the placement, the better the overall result.

beefandbones · Post by **beefandbones** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:35 am

Hey Patrick, I think what you're doing is a great way to learn about mic placement.

I've been recording for years now, and have had the chance to use a LOT of nice gear, but if I have to use a drum machine I almost always run it through a small amp and mic it from a distance - just like you're doing.

I think it's important to use your ears and decide what sounds best to you. There are a lot of common recording tricks at your disposal, but I think your sound will have more character if you experiment. Pick up a book or two on recording tips - almost any bookstore will have something like that. It will be worth it.

As far as recording leads... before I had a mic stand, I used to pile books and magazines in a stack so I could lay the microphone on it's side and point it right at the middle of the amp's speaker. For a more tighter, more focused sound you might try putting the mic right up on the grill, or for a little 'room' or 'atmosphere' back it up a foot or so. You could also try recording the lead lines with the mic up close to the amp, and then move the mic a foot or two back, and record the same leads a second time. Blend them in the mix and see how it sounds.

Speaking of mic stands, you might want to invest in a mic stand sometime. In the past, when I recorded vocals with a hand held mic, I found that it was difficult to keep 'handling' noise out of the microphone. Mics tend to be very sensitive to jostling.

Unfortunately, the Beatles didn't do much of the actual recording or engineering at Abbey Road, although they had very creative recording ideas. The engineers at Abbey Road were among the most highly trained audio professionals in the world with access to some of the nicest gear you could ever want, so the Beatles kind of lucked out. It will probably take at least a couple of years to make it to that level. Keep trying though! Good luck!

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:59 am

Good on ya for having a go at it, Patrick (BTW, have I told I reckon that's a great name?)

I'm beginning to experiment as well, and I've been advised to invest in a good quality mike - I have a mixer, top quality sound card and software, as well as an adjustable boom mike stand, so I'm all set there.

I experimented with a cheap mike in front of the amp and was quite disappointed - I've been assured that a quality one will make a huge difference.

I could always plug the guitar into the outboard sound card hub, I suppose, but I wanted to try to get more of a 'live' sound initially.

I hope you end up getting pleasing results - good luck with it!

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:43 am

And since Aitch brought up good quality mics, what would some consider the best? Other than Neumann. Tony, your best suggestions?

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:11 pm

There are a lot of decent mics around nowadays for a good price. Its hard to beat the Shure SM57/SM58's for a dynamic style mic. For a condensor mic, you'll spend more money, but they're more versatile IMHO. You need phantom power or a battery to supply a condensor mic with power, so that adds cost on too. Good condensors would be something like an AKG414, many Neumanns, Rode, etc. A budget condensor will run somewhere from $200 to $300, and a budget dynamic like the Shures is somewhere around $100 or so. If you have money to spend, then there are lots available as the price goes up. The AKG414 I mentioned are around $700, and there are other types up there in price from competitors I mentioned and many more. A good tube condensor mic will sound very nice, but costs a lot more. Ribbon mics are very nice also, especially for vocals and acoustic guitars, but are very delicate and spendy.

bigbajo60 · Post by **bigbajo60** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:55 pm

I'm going to be recording a friend playing his nylon-string classical guitar in a few days. I have a large diaphragm condenser (Shure KSM32) and a couple of small diaphragm condensers (Crown CM700), as well as an array of dynamics. Any placement suggestions for getting the nicest result?

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:18 pm

The problem with offering a cheap Mic up to the speaker cab, is that the SPL (sound pressure level) might not be high enough to cope, resulting in, as Aitch says, a 'dissapointing' result. Better to keep it a little away to avoid this potential problem. Also Patrick, if you are singing, then you MUST use a stand to avoid the handling noise & use either a pop shield, or a wind shield & sing slightly over the mic. This will help prevent any plosive 'P's. I urge you though, to consider investing in a better mic. The quality of Mic is one of the single most important issues in obtaining a quality recording.

As far as mic's go, it depends what you are recording. A condenser is on the whole a better quality sound, but not for gtr cabinets. They pick up too many frequencies & you may have trouble fitting it in the mix. The humble SM57/58 are great for mic'ing gtr cabs. I always dual mic with a 57 & a 58 as per this pic. The combination of the two gives you a lovely airey sound, but not too big to fit in the mix. If you just have the one mic, then experiment with position on the speaker. You get vastly different tones depending on where you place it & one just might be right for your particular application.

This way of micing is a good rock/pop etc technique. A Jazz gtr may well benefit from a large diaphragm mic placed a foot or two away from the cab, but I have just finished a project where by I used a Herb Ellis sig Jazz gtr, through an AC30 & yielded stunning results through the two shure method (Although I substituted a Beta 57 for the regular 57). I was at Abbey Road last week, mastering the album & everyone remarked on the sound!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:25 pm

Ooohh...nice looking AC30! Though it is a little bright wouldn't you say??

If your friend is just playing acoustically, then your options are a little easier. Best to experiment with different placements, but often a lot of people will aim a close mic at the neck end of the soundhole on the guitar(maybe a couple inches away), and another a foot or two back and a foot or two up, aimed at the bridge or neck end of the soundhole. Condensors are best, though again, experiment and see what you come up with. Some of the best sounds can be stumbled upon by "breaking the rules", as long as you don't break your equipment too! Your guitar player has to stay in one position while they play or the sound and volume will change as they move.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:28 pm

Alvaro....micing a classical gtr depends really on your room & the 'noise' of the performer. In a perfect world, the rule of thumb when micing ANY instrument is that the mic should be as far away from the instrument as it's length. This ensures that the sound you capture is representitive of the whole instrument & not just a part (the sound hole for instance). However, you have to have a pretty dead, or isolated room, otherwise the background noise will be too high. Also, performers breathing & general noises can be a real problem. I mic about 10-12" slightly neck side of the sound hole, but pointing towards it, using a large diaphragm mic (to capture the full range of tones). You will find that this works very well indeed & will give you a very accurate rendition. Acoustics, especially nylon strung acoustics can be VERY boomy in the bass department, so you may find that you need to use your bass roll off filter, if you have one (if not, a little lo EQ cut will do). I would normally record it as is & then use a filter on mix down.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:31 pm

Greg. The AC30 is one of the Cranberries AC30's. Vox did them two to use on an album cover & for the album. This is one of them, the other is in the Vox museum.

I've sort of got used to it!

oreca · Post by **oreca** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:14 pm

Great tips guys, thanks.

I like that pile of book idea Ethan, it'll make for a temporary cost cutting solution!

Now everyone has me convinced that I should get a mic stand... Sounds like a good Christmas gift!

Howard, yeah you've said that one before!

You'd be surprised at the amount of times people will comment on my name. Either the full thing or just my surname. People love a good Irish name!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:40 pm

The Cranberries don't use the amps that were made for them anymore? If someone made an amp for me and it sounded good, I'd keep using it!

If you're working in Abbey Road, you must have access to some of those old Neumanns that the Beatles used? Wonder what everyone will do when they can't get anymore of those old Telefunken VF14's for those U47's?

bigbajo60 · Post by **bigbajo60** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:24 pm

Thanx for the advice on recording the nylon classical.

I'll probably set up the large diaphragm and small diaphragm condensers in the manner prescribed and see which (or what combination of the two) sounds best!

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:44 am

This is fabulous stuff! The subtleties which mic for the job and mic placement are things that I am only beginning to consider, but to have them put in terms of the end result is great!

Tony: Is there such a thing as a 'general purpose' mic that would be suitable for a home recordist whose main interest is putting down a few tracks (guitar, bass, percussion machine and vocals) and subsequently mixing it with software to see what results can be achieved? I can record through a mic to a mixer (which has +48v phantom power) or directly from the instrument (in the case of guitar and bass) into the sound card external hub. The mic input in the external hub is for a dynamic microphone.

I've lost touch with this area of technology over the last 30 or so years - back in the 60s a microphone was dynamic, cardoid or diaphragm. Could you give us/me a brief rundown on the differences and suitability of application?

Also, have you had much experience with Sennheiser microphones. I ask that simply because I have access to the range at extremely good prices.

Please excuse in advance the ignorance of a newbie!