John Fogerty & CCR

scottpro1969 · Post by **scottpro1969** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:41 am

John has been touring so long without those guys...why??? I plead ignorance on this topic. I know he and his brother had problem with each other but what could have been so bad that the band dis-banded and never reconciled??? To this day!!!

I know that CCRevisited has been touring for many years....it's just sad that they can't just put the past behind them and work together.

lars · Post by **lars** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:20 am

Uh-uh, too many hard feelings. IIRC John was denied to tour and play his own songs for many years by those guys. I think John was too soft hearted back then and gave up the rigths to his own songs, and the band answered by touring with his songs and denying him to tour.
I saw his show in Oslo on the Blue moon swamp tour. As he kicked of with Born on the Bayou, tears fell from my eyes, knowing what he had been through. (BTW same happened when I saw Brian Wilson perform "Smile")

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:38 am

Yeah, John refused to perform with them when they were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for that. As well as for them siding with their record company against him over ownership of his songs that he wrote with CCR. Thay even accused him of ripping off his OWN SONG too. Lots of hard feelings there, even now it seems. Very sad.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:41 am

Yes, he was sued for "sounding too much like himself." A lot of that is in the hands of the owner of Fantasy Records, who fought Fogerty tooth and nail over money that was never rightfully his, but insisted on screwing JF over at every turn.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:09 am

I always find it amazing that a musical genius like Fogerty could get screwed over so easily and relentlessly.

lars · Post by **lars** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:17 am

BTW I remember in the show there was this elderly looking gentleman in black jeans and white shirt who played rythm open chords on a jetglo 330 on every song!

gbenner · Post by **gbenner** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:14 am

John was screwed over the years, he signed away his songs to Fantasy Records. They claimed they owned ALL the songs he wrote for Creedence. When he wrote Centerfield they sued him for sounding too much like himself. His brother Tom (rhythm guitar) also agreed with Fantasy Records, so they never talked again, Tom died in 1990. Concord Music Group which owns Fantasy Records was recently bought by Norman Lear (ALL IN THE FAMILY), who was and is a fan of Creedence. He restored Fogerety's rights to his royalties for his Creedence work. John still won't talk or work with the remaining CCR band members, you can't blame him. He should have a new DVD of his Creedence stuff out soon.

lowendbob · Post by **lowendbob** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:22 pm

FYI: John is on the cover of Vintage Guitar magazine this month. He has a very nice collection indeed.

jojo99 · Post by **jojo99** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:14 pm

I guess I have to be a contrarian on this, and side with the other two guys in the band. I've read lots of vitriol back and forth over this thru the years, and John Fogerty in my view comes across as extremely petty and bitter. Yes, it's a shame he signed away his rights early on, but so did virtually every band who was signed in the 60's. Yes, Saul Zaentz of Fantasy Records was a businessman, and not the music lover Fogarty may have thought originally, but that is nothing new at all...most musicians get over it after a few years. I haven't heard of any other acts signed to Fantasy say a single bad thing about Zaentz, so it appears to be strictly a case of personal bad blood between Fogarty and Zaentz. And yes, Zaentz put the screws to him, probably out of anger that he was mercilessly dissed by Fogarty for years and years. It didn't help that Fogarty wrote an entire song dissing Saul Zaentz, and was forced to change the lyrics out of threat of libel. Fogarty completely disregards the artistic input the other guys contributed to the band, saying outright that he WAS the whole band. Sure, he wrote all the hits, but his solo records over the years prove he's not a one-man hit machine. John Fogarty was not even able to bring himself to make peace with his brother on his deathbed. His whining over the years became VERY tiresome, and he never realized how utterly boring the business side of music is to the fans. He seems to feel the other guys in the band were not entitled to anything, royalties or recognition, when they spent several years of their lives building up the band in their heyday.
I think they are entitled to play those songs out live and get a little satisfaction out of their accomplishments. Cripes, now that Fogarty has got back his royalties, he STILL is absolutely stubborn about making nice with his bandmates. They didn't set out to screw him, they just wanted a bit of what they are entitled to, and just because they fought for their interests, Fogarty went completely bonkers and has spent MUCH effort projecting his pettiness on the other guys. I don't blame them for not trusting Fogarty in regards to them siding with Fantasy...look as what an *** he is capable of being!

dbailey62 · Post by **dbailey62** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:25 pm

gbenner wrote: When he wrote Centerfield they sued him for sounding too much like himself.
---------------------------------------------------
I believe it the suit was in regards to "Old Man Down The Road" from the Centrefield album. Saul Zaentz and Fantasy Records said that it sounded like "Run Through The Jungle".

Very, very silly. JF countersued and won court costs.

In a separate suit, he had to change the title and lyrics of "Zanz Can't Dance", a thinly disguised attack on Saul Zaentz, to "Vanz Can't Dance".

My understanding is that he signed his CCR royalties over to Fantasy in order to get himself released from his recording contract. A foolish move no doubt but it surely does show his desperation to get away.

I'm wondering though, how this stopped him from touring and performing CCR songs. I believe he did that of his own choice so as not to put royalties into Zaentz's pocket. I don't think you can blame Cook, Clifford or the late Tom for JF not touring and performing the songs.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

db

jojo99 · Post by **jojo99** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:43 pm

I think you are right... Fogarty has had way more access to the press, and has put his spin on things and consequently the public has really only heard his side of the story. He refused to perform CCR songs in order to prevent Zaentz from profiting from them, but finally relented when Bob Dylan told him "man, if you don't do your songs, people will think Tina Turner wrote "Proud Mary".
Given the fact Fogarty made it VERY clear he would NEVER EVER play with Clifford/Cook ever again, I can't blame them one bit for forging ahead on their own. They really only play State Fairs and such anyway, it's not like they are raking in the bucks. "Vanz Can't Dance" has to be one of the lousiest songs/videos that ever made MTV, IMO....it's really dumb.

jojo99 · Post by **jojo99** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:54 pm

The "Vanz Can't Dance" episode reminds me of the George Harrison plagarism case...he was sued by the publishers of "He's So Fine" for ripping off the song when he wrote "My Sweet Lord". The case was tied up in courts for years. George had finally washed his hands of Allen Klein.....so Klein bought the publishing rights of "He's So Fine" to keep the rancor going. George ended up losing the case, but eventually HE bought "He's So Fine" so I guess everything works out in the end, LOL.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:45 pm

Technically, aren't you allowed to play any songs at a live show? Like, you don't have to pay royalties to a band if you play a cover of a song of theirs live . . . you only have to do it if it's recorded and sold. I'm not sure it'd be possible to prevent Fogerty from singing Creedence songs on the road, whether or not he wrote them, because, at the least, he'd be "covering" CCR.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:50 pm

I think the trouble was them representing themselves as Creedence Clearwater Revival, not playing the music. It's a lot like Pink Floyd without Roger Waters, It's not REALLY CCR without John Fogerty, and it's not REALLY Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. Thankfully, the Waters feud seems to be Waters under the bridge now.

jps · Post by **jps** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:06 am

About a year ago, there was a thread, at the FDP, I think, about BMI/ASCAP going after club owners for royalties on cover bands playing "protected" music.