Hi Again,
I read in many articles how bass players are looking for an agressive tone.Why do you suppose they aren't using Rics onstage and in the studio? Although Les Claypool just recently played his 1970's Rick 4001 (given to him by Rush's Alex Lifeson) on a track called David Makalaster I of his Purple Onion CD.I also saw a black 4001-4003 with the rest of his Carl Thompson basses onstage at a recent concert.But he didn't play it!
Brent
So why do you think more well known artists aren't using
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
-
brentsimons
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:24 am
yeah, your right, not enough people are playing Rickenbackers!!! I cant understand why ,they are fantastic instruments. I just bought a 91' white 4003. I guess its a trend thing. Being English, I most associate Ricks with Bands like the Who and The jam. As for an "aggresive" tone, i find that my fender P bass has more treble bite than any rick, but so what, the rick looks better
The email address shown is down, you can email me at [email protected]
Rickenbacker doesn't give free instruments away to the lame pop posers of today for the purpose of publicity like other guitar makers do. And even if they did, we'd all have to suffer through visions of our favorite axes being slung so low they can't be played with any amount of finesse while these same non-musicians jumped up and down on stage followed by a trip with their Rics dragging the ground behind them into the mosh pit. If ya wanna see Rics, I guess ya gotta watch VH1 classics where they show up constantly.
This has already been mentioned on the artists topics but there *are* some newer MTV bands w/Rick basses out there. . . the Strokes being one of the more hyped examples.
Dane, you may have a good point. I had an opportunity over the holidays to watch MTV and VH1 ad nauseam (almost literally). Trust me - it wasn;t a musical experience so much as a "what marketing **** are they passing off as music now?" type experience.)
From what I could tell, most of the newer rock bands fall into two flavors:
1) The heavy rock/nu metal sound with pseudo-rap lyrics
2) The heavy rock/nu metal sound + hootie/blowfish styled crooning w/ overdramatized vocals. AKA Natalie merchant with chest hair type thing. (I don;t find either terribly appealing, YMMV)
Anyways, it's that old perception thing again - how "nu" or rad is anyone going to look with the same bass as Paul McCartney? Ricks are *very* distinctive looking, if nothing else. THis quality that most of us love may, because of perspective, ended up causing negative associations with a lot of players. Strats and P-basses look like . . . what an electric guitar should look like, to the uninitiated. In contrast, I think a lot of ppl *perceive* of the Rick basses as a bit ungainly. (WHich is kinda funny, for my money the world's ugliest guitar has got to be a tele, hands down
For many, The rick headstock *looks* heavy, the flat back *looks* uncomfortable, the pickup cover *looks* clunky. The high contrast between the white pickguard and your standard jetglo *looks* uber-retro. Sure, vintage strats look basically like new strats, just as old rickenbackers look like new ones. But Ricks are a lot more distinctive and unique looking to Joe Average on the street. This translates into distinctively vintage.
Perhaps Ricks are also an instrument that one matures into. In other words, more of a musicians' instrument than a superstar's instrument. There's no feeder line like Squander or Epiphone to get newer players hooked on. No intermediate lines like MIM. Nothin' wrong with that. FOr many of us, you have to seek a Rick out to get one. This is going to weed out a lot of beginners from the get-go.
[/ramble]
Dane, you may have a good point. I had an opportunity over the holidays to watch MTV and VH1 ad nauseam (almost literally). Trust me - it wasn;t a musical experience so much as a "what marketing **** are they passing off as music now?" type experience.)
From what I could tell, most of the newer rock bands fall into two flavors:
1) The heavy rock/nu metal sound with pseudo-rap lyrics
2) The heavy rock/nu metal sound + hootie/blowfish styled crooning w/ overdramatized vocals. AKA Natalie merchant with chest hair type thing. (I don;t find either terribly appealing, YMMV)
Anyways, it's that old perception thing again - how "nu" or rad is anyone going to look with the same bass as Paul McCartney? Ricks are *very* distinctive looking, if nothing else. THis quality that most of us love may, because of perspective, ended up causing negative associations with a lot of players. Strats and P-basses look like . . . what an electric guitar should look like, to the uninitiated. In contrast, I think a lot of ppl *perceive* of the Rick basses as a bit ungainly. (WHich is kinda funny, for my money the world's ugliest guitar has got to be a tele, hands down
For many, The rick headstock *looks* heavy, the flat back *looks* uncomfortable, the pickup cover *looks* clunky. The high contrast between the white pickguard and your standard jetglo *looks* uber-retro. Sure, vintage strats look basically like new strats, just as old rickenbackers look like new ones. But Ricks are a lot more distinctive and unique looking to Joe Average on the street. This translates into distinctively vintage.
Perhaps Ricks are also an instrument that one matures into. In other words, more of a musicians' instrument than a superstar's instrument. There's no feeder line like Squander or Epiphone to get newer players hooked on. No intermediate lines like MIM. Nothin' wrong with that. FOr many of us, you have to seek a Rick out to get one. This is going to weed out a lot of beginners from the get-go.
[/ramble]
"The only worthwhile conquests are those wrested from ignorance"
-Napoleon
-Napoleon
-
surfrat
Rickenbacker has done a good job in keeping their styles and sounds consistent over the years. But that's also a big part of the problem. Most younger players don't want to play the same basses that "the old guys" played, they want something new looking and fresh sounding. They don't care if the quality isn't as good. There are tons of really nice basses out there that cost significantly less than a new Rick. Look at the explosion in the number of bass manufacturers and different models and finishes. Rick has simply been overwhelmed by armies of competition.
It's the quality / quantity tradeoff. If you want to take the time to make a good product then you have to give up the mass markets because you just can't make as many basses. Therefore the percentage of people who play Ricks will continue to dwindle as the cheaper mass marketed basses show up in more bassists' arsenals. The only way to reverse the trend would be to flood the market with cheap Rickenbackers, which will never happen because Rick is too good to do that. So instead of looking at this as some sort of problem, I look at it as a good thing. The people who play Ricks could be considered to be more discriminating in their choice of instruments. Only the people who really know what is what will end up with them.
It's the quality / quantity tradeoff. If you want to take the time to make a good product then you have to give up the mass markets because you just can't make as many basses. Therefore the percentage of people who play Ricks will continue to dwindle as the cheaper mass marketed basses show up in more bassists' arsenals. The only way to reverse the trend would be to flood the market with cheap Rickenbackers, which will never happen because Rick is too good to do that. So instead of looking at this as some sort of problem, I look at it as a good thing. The people who play Ricks could be considered to be more discriminating in their choice of instruments. Only the people who really know what is what will end up with them.
Mark, I agree with you 100%. I don't even know how many mass-marketed basses I've owned that I've kicked myself after a month or so of purchase because of the lack of quality. After all of those, I have become VERY discriminating with my choice of basses. That's why four of my cheapies went in for trade on my first Ric.
Epiphone (Gibson) really makes me laugh. Gibson gives The Goo-Goo Dolls real Gibsons, but with Epiphone names on the headstocks to play at concerts so the 15 year olds say "Oh, he's playing an Epiphone!!! I'm gonna buy one!"
Will Rickenbacker do this? I don't think so.
What Gibson does to make money is fine and dandy. It makes them a great deal of money, for sure. But, as for me, I'm going for the quality instrument. Rickenbacker doesn't need to do these "gimmicks" that other companies have been doing. Quality sells by itself. If you build it, they will come.
Epiphone (Gibson) really makes me laugh. Gibson gives The Goo-Goo Dolls real Gibsons, but with Epiphone names on the headstocks to play at concerts so the 15 year olds say "Oh, he's playing an Epiphone!!! I'm gonna buy one!"
Will Rickenbacker do this? I don't think so.
What Gibson does to make money is fine and dandy. It makes them a great deal of money, for sure. But, as for me, I'm going for the quality instrument. Rickenbacker doesn't need to do these "gimmicks" that other companies have been doing. Quality sells by itself. If you build it, they will come.
It is funny, when a young musician finds out I have a RIC bass, their reply is almost always "a RIC, wow you must be good!". So RICs still have credibility as a "musician's axe".
On the Guitar thread this same question is asked about "famous Guitarists" & the credibilty of RIC guitars as a "lead player's" instrument. The discussion there boils down to most "virtuosos" play other brands because of 1.)marketing or 2.)perception of RICs as a rhythm instrument.
Conversely on the bass spectrum RICs have the credibility as a "virtuoso's axe" because of Squire, Macca, Geddy et all.
As for the decline in the visibility of RICS. Part of the problem is that there are not enough RICs in stores for players to try. Instead there are wall to wall F*****'s or F***** clones. Even on the high $ end, most boutique basses are F***** clones or an improvement of a F*****.
Most of the gigging bassist's I meet, have shelled out well over a $1000 for their main bass, so price is not a question. Most will say they bought the model & brand because of the quality & most importantly, it was in the store.
Wormdiet you make a great point about no RIC feeder line like Epiphone or Squire to get kids hooked. Since most basses are F***** clones, it is realistic to think that even if young players were to play a RIC, they would find the feel completely alien. Thus when they upgrade they are going to gravitate to a familiar model rather then a completely different one.
This is not to say that a RIC feeder line is a good thing.
IMHO Most of the music today is **** & I for one, would hate to see it played on a Rickenbacker. Let Joe Jerkoff from the boy band "Puppy Chow" play a F***** Custom Shop Namibian Gnatwood P-bass, with protective cup inlays that match his socks, on their #1 hit "I've got a crush on myself".
Meanwhile like most of us on this forum: I'll play my RIC because I love it & because I can.
BTY: Does anyone else find the Squire name on a line from F***** ironic?
On the Guitar thread this same question is asked about "famous Guitarists" & the credibilty of RIC guitars as a "lead player's" instrument. The discussion there boils down to most "virtuosos" play other brands because of 1.)marketing or 2.)perception of RICs as a rhythm instrument.
Conversely on the bass spectrum RICs have the credibility as a "virtuoso's axe" because of Squire, Macca, Geddy et all.
As for the decline in the visibility of RICS. Part of the problem is that there are not enough RICs in stores for players to try. Instead there are wall to wall F*****'s or F***** clones. Even on the high $ end, most boutique basses are F***** clones or an improvement of a F*****.
Most of the gigging bassist's I meet, have shelled out well over a $1000 for their main bass, so price is not a question. Most will say they bought the model & brand because of the quality & most importantly, it was in the store.
Wormdiet you make a great point about no RIC feeder line like Epiphone or Squire to get kids hooked. Since most basses are F***** clones, it is realistic to think that even if young players were to play a RIC, they would find the feel completely alien. Thus when they upgrade they are going to gravitate to a familiar model rather then a completely different one.
This is not to say that a RIC feeder line is a good thing.
IMHO Most of the music today is **** & I for one, would hate to see it played on a Rickenbacker. Let Joe Jerkoff from the boy band "Puppy Chow" play a F***** Custom Shop Namibian Gnatwood P-bass, with protective cup inlays that match his socks, on their #1 hit "I've got a crush on myself".
Meanwhile like most of us on this forum: I'll play my RIC because I love it & because I can.
BTY: Does anyone else find the Squire name on a line from F***** ironic?
He walked out to face his arch-enemies with his arch-supporters.
IMHO, a RIC import "feeder line" would be a terrible thing. And John Hall has said it's never gonna happen. Thank goodness.
There is plenty of good music being made today. Sometimes you just have to look a bit harder for it than we did in the 60s.
BTW, it's Squier, not Squire, it came from V. C. Squier & Co., an old stringmaking company Fender bought out many years ago.
There is plenty of good music being made today. Sometimes you just have to look a bit harder for it than we did in the 60s.
BTW, it's Squier, not Squire, it came from V. C. Squier & Co., an old stringmaking company Fender bought out many years ago.
-
jwr2
I play lots of modern music and my 4003s5 is a great instrument for stuff like Creed ...
My first bass was a hofner beatle bass cool instrument ... but I got into the ric because of Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, and other bands using it for great progressive rock stuff.
I like my jazz and Precision style 5 string basses as well but Ric's have a certain mystique about them ...
My first bass was a hofner beatle bass cool instrument ... but I got into the ric because of Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, and other bands using it for great progressive rock stuff.
I like my jazz and Precision style 5 string basses as well but Ric's have a certain mystique about them ...
-
jwr2
-
stukay
If you think you have problems finding a Ric spare a thought for us poor old New Zealanders! No distributor in the country at all. But that doesn't stop Ric's having a massive reputation. Particularly the basses.
My 17 year old son plays a 4001 in his band ... they play mainly original material ... dirty sort of rock 'n' roll. As lead vocalist as well the Ric is right out front and never fails to draw comment from other bands and a fair few punters as well.
It was found a bit by chance. We hit the local music shop to find a new bass for the boy to replace his Ibanez Roadster (and that is one heavy bass) ... he had his heart set on an Epiphone Jack Casady ... mainly cos one of his local heroes plays one to good effect. He was trying it out when I spotted the 4001 ... I suggested he try it out. He picked it up, plugged it in and played ... that was it ... that was what he wanted ... just the feel, the look and the sound. No preconceptions ... no knowledge of Chris Squire or Paul McCartney ... just a great sounding bass ... with a real R 'n' R look.
My 17 year old son plays a 4001 in his band ... they play mainly original material ... dirty sort of rock 'n' roll. As lead vocalist as well the Ric is right out front and never fails to draw comment from other bands and a fair few punters as well.
It was found a bit by chance. We hit the local music shop to find a new bass for the boy to replace his Ibanez Roadster (and that is one heavy bass) ... he had his heart set on an Epiphone Jack Casady ... mainly cos one of his local heroes plays one to good effect. He was trying it out when I spotted the 4001 ... I suggested he try it out. He picked it up, plugged it in and played ... that was it ... that was what he wanted ... just the feel, the look and the sound. No preconceptions ... no knowledge of Chris Squire or Paul McCartney ... just a great sounding bass ... with a real R 'n' R look.
Dave4004-thanks for the info on Squier.I was not aware.
Stukay-having owned a 1981 Ibanez Roadster I, my chiropractor & I can attest to the weight factor.
Did your son's Roadster have active electronics? I ask because when I bought my Roadster in 1983, the selling point was the active electronics. They allowed the bass to sound like a RIC.
Stukay-having owned a 1981 Ibanez Roadster I, my chiropractor & I can attest to the weight factor.
Did your son's Roadster have active electronics? I ask because when I bought my Roadster in 1983, the selling point was the active electronics. They allowed the bass to sound like a RIC.
He walked out to face his arch-enemies with his arch-supporters.
-
stukay
Eddier - Yep, nice little active eq. Caused a bit of consternation early on. My son had been playing the bass for a couple of days when the sound started to get really distorted. I suspected the amp first ... it was an old Roland Cube and the speaker was close to shot. But it all checked out. Decided to whip the back cover off the Ibanez only to discover a 9V battery ... hmmm replacing that fixed it fine. My son had left the plug in the socket, which of course drained the battery which was a bit weak to start with. Actually the socket was the weak point on this guitar ... I actually had to replace it several times as it just kept falling to pieces. In the end I replaced it with a quality XLR panel plug and adapted a mic lead to switch the battery through the "Spare" pin. But a great guitar for my son who was just learning at that stage. I picked it up for about US$100 from a second hand store. It is still the "spare" in case the Ricky breaks a string on stage ...