Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum, I figured I'd make it a good one. I plan on making a 381 of my own for a final project in college, but I need a little help from all of you who own a 381 and probably even some who don't.
I need measurements! Looking at pictures can only get me so far, and I've looked at a lot. It would be awsome if anyone could help me out with a couple of measurements I was wondering about, or post links to pictures of disassembled 381's, body cavities, necks etc etc.
So, what I need ...
Pickup distance (between each other, from the end of the guitar). As well as the dimensions of their cavities also.
Body thickness(es)
Height of the carved top (minus the actual body)
Basically everything to do with the neck:
Fretboard width at 1st and 21st fret (taper angle)
Dimensions of the head (rough even)
Neck (head) angle
Depth of neck (bottom of fretboard down)
Overall length of neck
Length from the 21st fret to end (part of neck that is fastened to body
Distance that the fretboard goes into the body by
That's all that comes to mind at the moment, there might be a couple more things. If you can even cross one of these off my list it would be very greatly appreciated.
Calling all 381 owners!!
Moderator: jingle_jangle
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ken_swearingen
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doombuggy
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ken_swearingen
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Is this legal? Not that I'm losing any sleep over your impending project, in fact, sounds like a lot of fun...and hard work.
Maybe after your project is completed, it could also serve at your C.V. for future employment at Rickenbacker.
I love my Jetglo 381. Okay, I love my 19-month old son much more, but the 381 is next.
Don't tell my wife...though I suspect she already knows.
Will you post pictures of your endeavour? Couldn't you just save up?
Maybe after your project is completed, it could also serve at your C.V. for future employment at Rickenbacker.
I love my Jetglo 381. Okay, I love my 19-month old son much more, but the 381 is next.
Don't tell my wife...though I suspect she already knows.
Will you post pictures of your endeavour? Couldn't you just save up?
How much!?!
I don't think Rickenbacker ... "enthusiastically endorses" people who remake their guitars. I'll have to find out and see. It wont be an exact replica, most of the measurements are being taken to discover how the guitar is proportioned. If it's any consolation to Rickenbacker the finished guitar will be staying with me 
I will definatly post pictures during the process too.
About saving up ... I only have a part-time job on weekends, go to school, and have a girlfriend. By the time I get enough to buy myself a 381...well you get the picture. Maybe I will buy one in the future.
I will definatly post pictures during the process too.
About saving up ... I only have a part-time job on weekends, go to school, and have a girlfriend. By the time I get enough to buy myself a 381...well you get the picture. Maybe I will buy one in the future.
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jingle_jangle
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Will, time for a Curmudgeon Reality Check here.
I will try to be realistic, as I think you should be, and I hope this does not come off as too negative. It would indeed be a pleasure to see you take this as a challenge and to succeed. But I think that this Forum would do you a disservice to encourage you without qualification (after all, most of us are players, not luthiers!).
So here goes:
First a parable:
When I was 18 years old (1966) I was crazy about woodie station wagons--in Chicago, no less. I was a design student in college at the time, so I started sketching and came up with a nice-looking design. Simple to build, I thought. So I went out and bought a VW convertible for $40.00, with the aim of restoring it and using that as the basis for my woodie construction. At that time, I already had two years of professional carpentry and woodworking experience. I thought it would be fairly simple.
It wasn't. The VW convertible restoration became impractical because of severe salt-belt rust, so I used the car to take measurements and sold it off.
I pursued my college studies and finally in 1970 I decided to resurrect the project. I did another series of sketches, bought a real woodie, and started to look at how to engineer and construct the car. It soon became obvious that I would need a full workshop and do it full-time in order to fulfill the project to my satisfaction. I set out to raise some money, and in mid-1975, I secured financing and set up shop in a rented, 15,000 square foot building. I then set out to build the first prototype, thanks to about $35K (1975 dollars--about $100K now) worth of machinery, cars, and wood. My planning paid off, though, because three and one half months later, the first car rolled out of the shop and onto the show circuit.
In order to recover the expenses, I decided to go into business manufacturing these vehicles. I built 26 of them over a three-year period. I still own and drive the last of the 26, 30 years later, and 39 years after I first got the idea.
The message is: Get your training, do your research, build it right, but don't be surprised if it takes eons to get things done.
Assuming that you have no luthiery experience (and correct me if I'm assuming too much), this is a big, big order.
A 381 is a set-neck, hollowbody guitar. It is of computer-routed construction, although admittedly it was hand-routed before that. Guitars such as Gretsch and Gibson hollowbodies are built with traditional "built-up" methods, from strips and flitches of thin wood, well-reinforced at stress points. Rickenbackers, on the other hand, are machine-routed, with extra wood at points of stress.
A tradionally built-up guitar like a Gretsch hollowbody can be built entirely with hand tools, although it does become a labor of love. But to properly do a Rickenbacker-style guitar, you've got to have a number of power tools and you've got to make templates and jigs for the routing and shaping.
To do a set-neck guitar, you need a solid grounding in guitar construction and design theory, and the ability and equipment (including measuring equipment) to work to very tight tolerances.
Unless you can borrow the equipment and materials, you could theoretically spend the cost of a 381 ($2K) acquiring them.
If you're going to build a solidbody, bolt neck guitar shaped like a 381, it's a whole 'nuther ball game. This is in the realm of possibility for a tyro luthier, but the closer it is to a real 381 in size and shape, the more you could run afoul of Rickenbacker's intellectual property protection should you or anyone else ever try to sell it.
I will try to be realistic, as I think you should be, and I hope this does not come off as too negative. It would indeed be a pleasure to see you take this as a challenge and to succeed. But I think that this Forum would do you a disservice to encourage you without qualification (after all, most of us are players, not luthiers!).
So here goes:
First a parable:
When I was 18 years old (1966) I was crazy about woodie station wagons--in Chicago, no less. I was a design student in college at the time, so I started sketching and came up with a nice-looking design. Simple to build, I thought. So I went out and bought a VW convertible for $40.00, with the aim of restoring it and using that as the basis for my woodie construction. At that time, I already had two years of professional carpentry and woodworking experience. I thought it would be fairly simple.
It wasn't. The VW convertible restoration became impractical because of severe salt-belt rust, so I used the car to take measurements and sold it off.
I pursued my college studies and finally in 1970 I decided to resurrect the project. I did another series of sketches, bought a real woodie, and started to look at how to engineer and construct the car. It soon became obvious that I would need a full workshop and do it full-time in order to fulfill the project to my satisfaction. I set out to raise some money, and in mid-1975, I secured financing and set up shop in a rented, 15,000 square foot building. I then set out to build the first prototype, thanks to about $35K (1975 dollars--about $100K now) worth of machinery, cars, and wood. My planning paid off, though, because three and one half months later, the first car rolled out of the shop and onto the show circuit.
In order to recover the expenses, I decided to go into business manufacturing these vehicles. I built 26 of them over a three-year period. I still own and drive the last of the 26, 30 years later, and 39 years after I first got the idea.
The message is: Get your training, do your research, build it right, but don't be surprised if it takes eons to get things done.
Assuming that you have no luthiery experience (and correct me if I'm assuming too much), this is a big, big order.
A 381 is a set-neck, hollowbody guitar. It is of computer-routed construction, although admittedly it was hand-routed before that. Guitars such as Gretsch and Gibson hollowbodies are built with traditional "built-up" methods, from strips and flitches of thin wood, well-reinforced at stress points. Rickenbackers, on the other hand, are machine-routed, with extra wood at points of stress.
A tradionally built-up guitar like a Gretsch hollowbody can be built entirely with hand tools, although it does become a labor of love. But to properly do a Rickenbacker-style guitar, you've got to have a number of power tools and you've got to make templates and jigs for the routing and shaping.
To do a set-neck guitar, you need a solid grounding in guitar construction and design theory, and the ability and equipment (including measuring equipment) to work to very tight tolerances.
Unless you can borrow the equipment and materials, you could theoretically spend the cost of a 381 ($2K) acquiring them.
If you're going to build a solidbody, bolt neck guitar shaped like a 381, it's a whole 'nuther ball game. This is in the realm of possibility for a tyro luthier, but the closer it is to a real 381 in size and shape, the more you could run afoul of Rickenbacker's intellectual property protection should you or anyone else ever try to sell it.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
I go to college in Mechanical Engineering Manufacturing. I have over 1 million dollars of machinery at my disposal as well as a full staff of teachers that would be more than happy to help me out. I don't think that this will be easy, that's why I chose to do it.
I have CNC machines that can work to .0005, CAD software etc so I wont lose any sleep over that aspect. Thanks for the input, like I said, I can always revert to a 360 if need be
I have CNC machines that can work to .0005, CAD software etc so I wont lose any sleep over that aspect. Thanks for the input, like I said, I can always revert to a 360 if need be
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jingle_jangle
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Sounds good. But you don't mention any woodworking or luthiery experience, so I assume that my previous assumption is correct, etc.
I am a practicing designer and prototype builder. I own a 381 and seven other Rickenbackers, and have analyzed them all quite thoroughly. I also have spent time at the RIC plant on two occasions this year, watching these guitars being constructed in a blend of computerized modern woodworking and traditional methods by a mix of highly-skilled workers who have spent in many cases, decades perfecting their crafts.
I teach--guess what? Industrial Design and Prototype fabrication, on the college level, besides managing my Department's substantial fabrication shops, and writing classes, lecturing, etc.
The biggest problem my students have every semester, is that their dreams are beyond their capabilities to realize them, even with lots of computers and a substantial prototype fabrication facility with a dozen qualified instructors, and another half-dozen professional Shop Technicians to assist them. The reason is an attitude endemic to students who want to build their dream: overconfidence and a belief that CNC, CAD, and programs such as Alias will, to put it bluntly, save their behinds, when what is required is lots of preparation and hours and hours of learning basic skills and hard, hard work. And dust.
You need neither .0005" accuracy (that's Space Shuttle stuff) nor CAD software to pull this project off. And, frankly, a 360 is not much simpler than a 381.
I thought long and hard before even entering this thread, lest my Devil's Advocate approach would be taken the wrong way.
I wrote two previous posts, deleting them both because I felt that my unqualified enthusiasm would give the wrong impression.
Don't get me wrong--I think it's a super project for a beginner interested in music, to construct his own instrument. But why not strike out in an original direction, instead of copying an instrument that you've seen only in pictures? You no doubt have some ideas for improvement already, so why not take your guitar knowledge and strike out on your own, designing and modifying your own instrument to your needs and tastes? That's where true success, and a grade of "A", reside!
One of my Product Design classes just completed a musical instrument design project with the assistance of RKS Guitars. Out of 12 students, not one built a working prototype, as it was decided--rightly so--that 15 weeks was far too short a time to achieve success, and too much time would be spent re-inventing the wheel. So, in 15 weeks, a number of different concepts were generated in looks-like prototype form, for further development into real instruments.
You want to build a real guitar? Go for it. We're still very interested in your project and want it to succeed. But, as Grampa Jones used to say to Minnie Pearl: "Take off that stupid hat, Minnie!"
Wrong quote...I meant to say, "Forewarned is forearmed."
Good luck.
I am a practicing designer and prototype builder. I own a 381 and seven other Rickenbackers, and have analyzed them all quite thoroughly. I also have spent time at the RIC plant on two occasions this year, watching these guitars being constructed in a blend of computerized modern woodworking and traditional methods by a mix of highly-skilled workers who have spent in many cases, decades perfecting their crafts.
I teach--guess what? Industrial Design and Prototype fabrication, on the college level, besides managing my Department's substantial fabrication shops, and writing classes, lecturing, etc.
The biggest problem my students have every semester, is that their dreams are beyond their capabilities to realize them, even with lots of computers and a substantial prototype fabrication facility with a dozen qualified instructors, and another half-dozen professional Shop Technicians to assist them. The reason is an attitude endemic to students who want to build their dream: overconfidence and a belief that CNC, CAD, and programs such as Alias will, to put it bluntly, save their behinds, when what is required is lots of preparation and hours and hours of learning basic skills and hard, hard work. And dust.
You need neither .0005" accuracy (that's Space Shuttle stuff) nor CAD software to pull this project off. And, frankly, a 360 is not much simpler than a 381.
I thought long and hard before even entering this thread, lest my Devil's Advocate approach would be taken the wrong way.
I wrote two previous posts, deleting them both because I felt that my unqualified enthusiasm would give the wrong impression.
Don't get me wrong--I think it's a super project for a beginner interested in music, to construct his own instrument. But why not strike out in an original direction, instead of copying an instrument that you've seen only in pictures? You no doubt have some ideas for improvement already, so why not take your guitar knowledge and strike out on your own, designing and modifying your own instrument to your needs and tastes? That's where true success, and a grade of "A", reside!
One of my Product Design classes just completed a musical instrument design project with the assistance of RKS Guitars. Out of 12 students, not one built a working prototype, as it was decided--rightly so--that 15 weeks was far too short a time to achieve success, and too much time would be spent re-inventing the wheel. So, in 15 weeks, a number of different concepts were generated in looks-like prototype form, for further development into real instruments.
You want to build a real guitar? Go for it. We're still very interested in your project and want it to succeed. But, as Grampa Jones used to say to Minnie Pearl: "Take off that stupid hat, Minnie!"
Wrong quote...I meant to say, "Forewarned is forearmed."
Good luck.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Will, many of the specs you are looking for can be found here.
If I were you I would build something inspired by your favorite instrument or combinations of features found on different instruments that you like. Don't build an exact copy. This keeps you out of trademark/patent infrigment.
If I were to build a semi-hollow guitar I would most likely do so with a hidden neck-through. This would eliminate a number of problems Paul has mentioned. I built my first guitar in high school in the '60s as a woodshop project. Needless to say it had its issues.I completed my last guitar about 2 1/2 years ago and is now my main guitar. I hope to start another soon as time permits. The majority of my time was spent on the drawing board and layout. The woodworking goes pretty fast, the finishing can be time consuming.
Good luck with your project.
If I were you I would build something inspired by your favorite instrument or combinations of features found on different instruments that you like. Don't build an exact copy. This keeps you out of trademark/patent infrigment.
If I were to build a semi-hollow guitar I would most likely do so with a hidden neck-through. This would eliminate a number of problems Paul has mentioned. I built my first guitar in high school in the '60s as a woodshop project. Needless to say it had its issues.I completed my last guitar about 2 1/2 years ago and is now my main guitar. I hope to start another soon as time permits. The majority of my time was spent on the drawing board and layout. The woodworking goes pretty fast, the finishing can be time consuming.
Good luck with your project.
"The best things in life aren't things."