Reversed tone pots - Normal?

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:38 am

My old 4001 ('63) has tone pots that are wired backwards. Turning them to what would normally be the fully open position is really fully closed. The wiring itself appears to have been altered over the years. The solder joints don't look original. I suppose it is possible that the pots have been replaced but I have never checked the date codes on them.

Anyway, before I rewire the tone pots to work in the conventional way, is it possible that the reverse wiring is normal for an older Rick?

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:42 am

No, that is normal for Rickenbackers of the period. The reissue 325C58 and 360/12C63 are wired in this fashion as well.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:23 am

Yes Ted, even if you have replaced parts, their function is as it was intended to be.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:00 am

Thanks guys. As you know, old Ricks can be a little quirky. It is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between owner mods and older factory setup methods. I wonder why the V63 was not setup that way.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:12 pm

I understand the new 360C12 has backwards tone controls.

I have photos of George live in 1964 showing all controls turned in the same direction which I would believe to be wide open. These controls are all in the same position as a non backward wired guitar. Lennon's newer 325 controls are set in the exact same positions. Harrison also would work his volume controls live on all his guitars.

I would think we would see the two tone knobs on Harrisons 12 string turned the other way in a different position for the tone pots to be open while wired backwards.

????

I understand that the backward tone wiring is a characteristic of 1963 Rickenbackers but is it possible that RIC's made towards the end of 1963 have standard wiring?

Are there any RIC owners here who own late '63 models where the tone controls are not wired backwards?

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:22 pm

My bass is from early '63 (March). I am guessing that you are right. The change occurred in '64.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:18 am

Karl wrote: "..I understand that the backward tone wiring is a characteristic of 1963 Rickenbackers but is it possible that RIC's made towards the end of 1963 have standard wiring?.."

I personally had thought the change was earlier than 1963, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I have owned 2 1961 Rickenbackers and a 1962, all of them are wired with reverse tone pots. Combo 850(David) has two consectutively serial numbered 1963 Ricks, but I can't remember at the moment how the controls work on those two guitars...I'll check as to when they were made.

I'd heard(somewhere) that George's guitar had been examined and found that the tone pots were reversed-wired, thus the C63 being the same...YMMV.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:48 pm

Using the knob positions isn't the best way to tell if Harrison's tone controls are backwards but...Harrison's 12 string was made in December of 1963.

Too close of a date to 1964 to say it was made the same as other guitars years before. No one has confirmed that the tone pots on Harrison's 12 string are backwards as the factory has not inspected the guitar. It's just an assumption.

You would think such a new instrument would have gotten the new standard specifications.

???

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:51 pm

Then again, its easy enough to rewire the pots the normal way.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:48 pm

Yes it is, just move the wire on the tone pot to the opposite lug.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:10 am

Karl wrote: "...No one has confirmed that the tone pots on Harrison's 12 string are backwards as the factory has not inspected the guitar. It's just an assumption...."

Karl, this is something that Mr. Hall will have to comment on if he chooses, for I do not know what communication has taken place between RIC and the Harrison Estate or Alan Rogan; I can't say either way on if it was an assumption, or verified proof.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:53 pm

With all respect John, this question was asked by someone on this forum quite some time ago and the answer was 'no' basically with any of the Beatles RIC's being inspected.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:41 pm

Yes Karl, there is a post made a while back that pretty much says George's 12-string was never examined by RIC, at least not first-hand.

Nevertheless, it may be possible that certain details of the guitar were inquired about and made available about George's 12-string while the C63 was in development, such as the type of wiring used (vinyl) and the fact that George's 12-string was wired in dual-mono...both of these details have been discussed.

It may very well be that the sample used for the hard dimensions of the C guitar(very close to George's)---i.e. body/neck etc...had tone pots that were wired in reverse and thus thought of as the norm for that period of production...

I just take the position that a conscious choice was made about the controls being wired in the manner that they are, not simply an 'assumption'. If it proves later that the guitars were wired in error to George's original, then 2-3 minutes with a soldering iron will right the wrong. On we go...

larrywassgren · Post by **larrywassgren** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:21 pm

"The factory has not inspected the guitar" but didn't the factory build the guitar? This really proves how rare these guitars are as there are only two others from that year to compare George's to. There's the Suzie Arden guitar and Mike Campbell's but there's no guarantee they were wired like George's.

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:06 pm

I'm going to Mike Campbell's show this Saturday.

I'll ask him after the show how his controls work.

Mikes 12 is closest to Harrison's.