Not too expensive 80s 360/12WB on the 'bay

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:04 am

Considering Lark Street wants 3K for one, this might be
a good deal....
http://cgi.ebay.com/1980-Rickenbacker-12-String-Electric-Guitar-With-Case_W0QQitemZ7382323581QQcategoryZ41439QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I do say Might....

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:31 pm

Interesting....what color is that?

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:52 pm

Burgundyglo. Someone please...get it. It's almost as cool as the 330/12 AZ that just sold for $1350.

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:28 pm

Wow!
I had thought it was Ruby; Burgandyglo is WAY cooler!

I think there was an added feature in the 330/12 AZ's
auction that made the auction more appealing than the guitar alone.....

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:57 am

Just because one store sets a ripoff price on one guitar doesn't mean a comparative bargain is a real bargain, especially when shipping is $68. I sold a 360/12 WB in jetglow five years ago on ebay for under $900. I know prices are up. But this looks like no bargain to me. I think there's a bubble in the market in fact...which means it's time to sell, not buy.

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:05 am

True-
One store doesn't set the market. However, the entire market on vintage guitars has shot up in the past few years and unlike real estate or stocks, does not drop. It may stabilize for a year or two, but not drop.
A LOT of prices were lower 5 years ago....

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:31 am

Hmmm....well, I don't think the current vintage guitar market is comparable to past vintage guitar markets, thus I disagree with the "does not drop" scenario. That is, now, when some guitars are doubling in price inside of five years. I've never seen that before and it indicates to me that this has only been possible because non-musicians are stepping in and buying in an effort to reap huge profit in a so-called market. And they've pushed prices up. This is similar to the modern art market in the mid 1980s and indicative of a bubble. Don't know if you remember, but prices for such art were insane, shooting up at a similar rate. Then, bam, the bottom fell out. I have never heard of such a market for that kind of art since, though I'm sure it has appreciated some between now and then. The fact is, if you overpay and a market busts, or even slows, if you're buying to make money, or need to sell for money, you might get stuck with a loss. Guitars will be no exception, except for those encrusted with diamonds and gold. And even those might slow a bit, heh-heh. Anyway, should anything arrive to reduce the enthusiasm for this vintage guitar market, and it will if it's a speculation fad and non-players are in it, then immediately all the non musicans, who're only buying because they think there's money in it, will leave it. Thus, that much demand will vanish, if not forever, for a long, long time. At least until hip-hop dies and more kids take up guitar : ) The lesson here:? Don't overpay and then pay 68 bucks for shipping to guys that sell beer mugs. What's more, sell everything you have that has strings on it now, and buy it back for a third less or even less, in a few years. I am seriously considering taking my own advice on this, by the way.

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:47 am

I do not see a drop in the market for things like this. They are not making any more 1982 360/12WBs in Burgundy, you know?

That 330/12 eventually went for a lowered But It Now of $1350. I am glad I did not see that beforehand, there's no way I could have resisted.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:00 am

Hey, they're not making '64 strats anymore either. But if a market gets soft, prices fall, for everything. The higher the prices you see for this stuff, the more likely that scenario is. I think non-guitarists are jumping in, at least for old Strats and Les Pauls, etc., and to a certain extent, that's gonna make everyone think that everything is worth more...until, well, not everyone thinks that. So, we'll see were this ends up. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying I've seen this before with other stuff. Warhol is dead. He's not going to be doing anymore work. And what he did do is treasured by a lot of people as much as we treasure Ricks. But the pure speculators have not returned to buying his stuff. And I don't think the pure speculators see the greatness of guitars as much as the people who can actually play them. So, if someone starts getting burned, they'll go elsewhere for good. And $68 is still a ripoff for shipping, heh-heh.

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:24 am

Well, if $68 is a rip-off for shipping; tell me how much would gas and food cost you if you went from New York to California to get an instrument?
Or-
I live in Hawai'i. That same trip to New York or anywhere on the mainland would certainly be more than the $150 I gotta pay.

I guess if you don't like the fair market value of something, then you don't have to buy it.

leftyguitars · Post by **leftyguitars** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:57 am

It boils down to supply and demand, I think nothing of paying possibly twice the US "going rate" for a nice guitar that I really want, and then maybe a further $200 to ship it to England (and then pay a further 24% tax and import duty to our wonderful government).

One mans "rip off" is another mans bargain.

If you want it - buy it, if you don't want it -don't buy it. Simple as that!

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:57 am

Many things go up and down, even guitars/basses. Speaking from an over-all point of view, it has steadily increased--it hasn't seen any low-valley kind of depreciation, at least not in the 25 years or so that I've paid attention to it.

A 1951 Fender Telecaster went for $50K not long ago, it had an amp with it too but I NEVER thought I'd see the day for that kind of price. You'll find BIG spikes in niche categories, like Beatle-related stuff. A post-1967 500/1 bass is worth much more to me as an instrument because they are MUCH better basses than the version McCartney played.....but not worth more, because they don't look just like his.

Many asking prices, by privateers and dealers alike, are simply fishing expeditions IMO and don't reflect a true market. Having said this, the more 'catches' they get at the prices they ask will only lead to a higher-priced legitimized market....

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:12 am

We're also talking about a guitar where at this point, the closest thing to it is either a v64 which will fetch that or a c63 which costs about $2199.
So for @ $1900 you get a discontinued guitar with a 20+
year old vibe.
As for increase in value- Look at the 370/12RM, or the
72 4001.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:50 am

On the lower end of this discussion, I've been paying between $60 and $72 to ship guitars west to east in the USA for the last year, via UPS 3 Day Select. East to west is somewhat cheaper.

This may reopen the discussion as to the cheapest/best way, but I have had numerous bad experiences with FedEx and DHL lately, at least in SF. I know some of you have had your difficulties with UPS, but they have yet to damage one of my guitar shipments, whereas FedEx has blown three overnights in the last 8 months, stretching one out in one case to eight days, and in two cases, claiming that my building--a 150,000, four-story tall loft building on a very busy corner--didn't exist.

$68.00 in shipping doesn't sound bad to me.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:52 am

As per ripoff shipping prices, I've shipped 7 or 8 guitars in my day, all in recent years. It's never cost me more than $35 each time. So, twice that I say is a excessive and the price of gas to drive across the US has nothing to do with whether one wants to pay twice the going rate for what something actually costs. If you want it, go for it. I certainly won't bid against you. As per 360WBs, it's a fair bet that regardless of the fact that some want them in other colors and from different eras, the vast demand is going to be FGs as close to Harrison's as possible, otherwise Ric woudn't have discontinued them. Let's see if this one sells and if so for how much and if so how happy the buyer is with it (it does not look to me like it is being sold by a guitar authority.) That will settle how indeed "discounted" it is. I still see a bubble in the forecast, especially for 50K Fenders. I suspect, in good times and bad, all kinds of cool Rics and others from all eras will continue to be popping up on ebay and elsewhere and "the going rate" will vary significantly, up to a 3rd in price. As per 370/12RMs and others, those are different guitars so the comparison isn't exactly the same. -A guy just tryin' to save you some $.