Pot/Serial Number Dating a 4001

bails · Post by **bails** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:38 pm

One of my 4001's has a November '77(QK) serial number, but all four pots date to '81. The jack-plate may well have been changed, but I can't think of a reason for doing this. It's not like they break easily, and nor would anyone go the trouble of changing for a '77 serial, when the bass is worth exactly the same as an '81. I am aware that sometimes parts sit around the factory for a long time, but is it possible that the jack plate sat around for 4 years at the bottom of the box?

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:49 pm

I can't speak for the factory, but I think that it would highly unlikely.

In my own experience, I have a 4001 Walnut that has an anomalous jackplate - just two letters, no number (both JH and Kenny looked at it and said that it was most likely a blank plate that somehow got out of the factory and someone tried to stamp a couple of letters on it) but the pots date to mid 1973. Problem with that is that the bass has none of the pre/early 1973 features, making it most likely a 1974 at the earliest.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:00 am

Well, things happened like this from time to time. Guitars were on hand at the factory many years ago, some not shipped until called for. One instance was a 360/12, bought new in April 1970, with a 1968 serial number. I have an instrument with a jackplate that goes to a 4001 which is 6 numbers off of what is actually recorded in the records...they just picked up the wrong one during assembly. This kind of stuff slipped through the cracks...

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:20 am

Wait just a minute...there are RECORDS???

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:36 am

Sure Dane. Mr. Hall has said himself that the internal documents from the older days exist, and has referred to them on occasion. If the records are incomplete to any degree, I have no knowledge of this. However, the priorities of the company prevent anyone from overseeing them to answer the kind and number of inquiries that would be anticipated. The archives have been, and remain, private company info.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:47 pm

Hm... Maybe the original pots on Mark's '77 4001 have been replaced with 1981 ones. No?

shinynewtoy · Post by **shinynewtoy** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:38 pm

Another QK!!! Mine is #5083.... yours close?

bails · Post by **bails** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:28 pm

1) QK4920. What Pot dates do you have?
I've often wondered which numbers Rickenbacker used in their serials, and which numbers got left out. Obviously, there's no way that they made anywhere near as many as 5083 guitars in the single month of November 1977, yet the numbers still go that high. Is there any such guitar as QK0001, or did they just start the serials with a higher number?

2) The pots all have uniformed looking solder joints, and original style caps and hook-up wires suggesting they are original. If the whole pickguard assembly was changed, the bridge pick-up solder joint would/might look different to the others, as this cannot be taken with the guard. I can't rule out changed pots, but I would think that most likely, the jack plate has been changed(no idea why?), or it left the factory in 1981 as it is today with a '77 serial.

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:56 am

Mark, AFAIK Ric would start at QA0001(QA1 without the zeroes?) and change only the month digit as time progressed, so, more like 5k units a year.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:37 am

Gerry, they did it just the way you describe up into about late 1966-early 67, and then started using at least 3 digits in the sequence until needing a fourth for numbers over 1000....at least in what I've observed..

For instance, McCartney's 4001-S is DA23, not DA023 or DA0023. I've seen numbers like GA001, on a 360 or 365 from 1967. I have KA016.

Mr. Hall has said that the numbers skip around and are not in sequence at all times, but you can gather some idea of how things were numbered by what is out there in circulation...rough data but somewhat trustworthy.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:39 am

For a few months in 1989 I owned a Burgundyglo 4001 with serial number QK 4875.

shinynewtoy · Post by **shinynewtoy** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:17 am

I didn't check the dates the one and only time I've gone under the hood... for a .0047 exorcism and pickguard change.

All 3 QK's are pretty close....cool! Mark, i'm inagining that the pots were changed at some point, 4 years seems like a wide gap in date codes. The solder joints throw that theory off a little... unless the surgery was performed by a soldering samurai who could make them look factory...

bails · Post by **bails** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:38 pm

Are there any production differences between '77 and '81 basses?
When did the route between the control and pick-up cavities change to a smooth channel? Mine has the holes, which I think makes it pre-1980. This may indicate that the serial number is more likely correct, and the pots have been changed. The soldering sure looks original though - Anyone want to believe it sat in the factory from late '77 until '81 before it got it's wiring harness? Is a gloss Walnut finish more likely to account for it remaining incomplete for 4 years?
If the pots have in fact been changed, why would someone change over all four pots, on a bass only 4 years old, and how would they do such a factory looking soldering job?