Tuning machines for 12 strings

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 11:12 pm

Hi Mark! Why do you think Ric uses Klusons tuners with screwholes that are drilled precariously close to the edge for the offset tuners on 12 strings? Wouldn't it be better just to use the old style that screw in the middle? Have you come across any splits on these?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 12:08 am

No I have not come across this type of tuner in my shop.
That does sound like it could be a problem but I would say ask Henry at the factory if they are having any problems and ask them why are they doing this .

I'm not the factory ,I did work there but that was years ago and things change.

The old style kluson tuners are coming in from Taiwan,Korea and Japan.
They all look the same yet mechanically they differ greatly .
I prefer what is known as Gotoh tuners.
The Schaller tuners that are on the Ricks of the last 20 years or so work fine .
They are the same gearing and casing that is on Gibson tuners that are Kluson knock offs.
I have spoken my concern over the Gibson tuners in the past and why ...but that is old news and a different topic .
Ask Henry and get the official answer,tell him hello for me.

bernie · Post by **bernie** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 9:07 am

Thanks Mark. Actually, I was mistaken in that I was speaking of the modern style Schaller tuners on new guitars, not Klusons. Sorry about that.I ask because I have come across some new models that have small cracks where the exposed screws go in close to the edge on 12 strings. Mechanically Schallers are top notch for sure, but in this application the arrangement seems to be flirting with disaster as a small bump to the tuning machines can chip off a big hunk of headstock wood. Thanks for the advice. I'll ask Henry.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 12:15 pm

It probably would be better to use the old style center-mount type and we would . . . if Schaller still made them. Unfortunately, they don't as part of their "I" series keys available to manufacturers. But I must say that we've never had one come back for warranty work with this problem.

bernie · Post by **bernie** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 10:26 pm

Thanks for your response Mr. Hall!

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 1:03 pm

question for John Hall ,

Does Schaller still make M6 mini tuners that utilize two mounting screws?

these wre fairly common place in the 1970's as replacement uners on Martin ,Fender and other brands of guitars.

Maybe the offset screw pattern would be advantagous to holding the housing i=onto the headstock ,particularly the side tuners and this stabilizing would therefore help in this area of concern.

I will note that as a repair person ....I have never seen any breaking of the headstock from this ,but I have seen loose tuners.And a flat toothpick and some yellow woodworkers glue fixes that .

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 4:28 pm

Their catalog doesn't show any M6 type key with two mounting lugs. However, as a guitar maker you know that there is no catalog for the Schaller "i" series, the kind of keys guitar makers use. And of course Schaller, for a price, will make manufacturers anything they want.

In more specific response to the original question, Schaller does offer to the retrofit market their M6 Vintage key which has the center tab. These are only available through distributors and music stores.

The M6 keys of all types generally don't make good 12 string keys when configured as we do, as the top mount bushing is used like a thrust bearing to support the key shaft.

I'd also be pretty careful about using aliphatic resin glue, as you suggest, where it can come into contact with the finish. Over the years, the chlorine content can plasticize the surrounding finish. Cyanoacrilate (super glue) would be a better long term choice, even though it will certainly bite into the finish wherever it touches.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:35 pm

Thats where those disposable teflon tips come in handy .