"There is something very visceral about the 4001/4003/4004 series bass. It's not just about tone, price, or looks. To me the bass just plain feels part of you, not hung on you."
J. Gary, you hit the nail on the head!
Sort of disappointed with Ric.
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
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shinynewtoy
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 7:46 pm
I agree with so many of the things said here. When I bought my first Rick I was doing as Kurt says and trying not to follow the herd. I used to (stupidly) hate Fenders because at the time everyone played them, and I wanted to be different. As I thought my heroes were...
I think another factor that hasn't been mentioned is in the "old days" (yeah, I know..) there just wasn't as much choice of instrument as there is nowadays. Now there are a gazillion quality instruments to choose from. And many of them are relatively cheap. So its not as clearcut to a younger musician as Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker and a couple of others, although I do tend to feel that many who choose Ricks do so partly for their historical connections and associated cool factor. Which, of course, is part of the magic. As Lars said, it's all about emotion. Sometimes when I play my Ricks I can almost imagine I really AM in Deep Purple, Genesis, Yes or Hawkwind
.
However, joking aside, I think Rick quality stands up to most out there. I do however feel that they are an instrument that polarises people and opinions. I've spoken to people who think they're hideous, in the same way that some people hate 50s American cars or 60s muscle cars. I've spoken to people who think they sound dreadful, and some of those have played quite a few. But for everyone who feels like that there is another who thinks that they are the most beautiful thing in the world, like 50s American cars or 60s muscle cars.....you get my drift. It's not often they're met with indifference. I guess the Harley comparison is a good one....
I've actually been surprised by how many musicians I've seen recently using Ricks, particularly in up and coming bands. Kasabian, Franz Ferdinand, Razorlight, and many others, including Robbie Williams bassist and the new (?) guy in Simple Minds. I watched a recent edition of Later With Jools Holland (a live music UK tv show), and there was a young band on there (who's name I forget) completely outfitted with Ricks. And 2 out of 4 or 5 bands on the show had 4003 basses,which isn't bad. Whether that's just a UK thing, I don't know. And yes, some of these aren't huge names, but everyone has to start somewhere. If somebody would just sign my band, you'd see someone else using them...!!!
BTW, Tony, I'm another Rick/Alembic owner. Granted I do also currently have a Status 5 string for occasional use, but the Ricks/Alembic are my true loves.
I think another factor that hasn't been mentioned is in the "old days" (yeah, I know..) there just wasn't as much choice of instrument as there is nowadays. Now there are a gazillion quality instruments to choose from. And many of them are relatively cheap. So its not as clearcut to a younger musician as Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker and a couple of others, although I do tend to feel that many who choose Ricks do so partly for their historical connections and associated cool factor. Which, of course, is part of the magic. As Lars said, it's all about emotion. Sometimes when I play my Ricks I can almost imagine I really AM in Deep Purple, Genesis, Yes or Hawkwind
. However, joking aside, I think Rick quality stands up to most out there. I do however feel that they are an instrument that polarises people and opinions. I've spoken to people who think they're hideous, in the same way that some people hate 50s American cars or 60s muscle cars. I've spoken to people who think they sound dreadful, and some of those have played quite a few. But for everyone who feels like that there is another who thinks that they are the most beautiful thing in the world, like 50s American cars or 60s muscle cars.....you get my drift. It's not often they're met with indifference. I guess the Harley comparison is a good one....
I've actually been surprised by how many musicians I've seen recently using Ricks, particularly in up and coming bands. Kasabian, Franz Ferdinand, Razorlight, and many others, including Robbie Williams bassist and the new (?) guy in Simple Minds. I watched a recent edition of Later With Jools Holland (a live music UK tv show), and there was a young band on there (who's name I forget) completely outfitted with Ricks. And 2 out of 4 or 5 bands on the show had 4003 basses,which isn't bad. Whether that's just a UK thing, I don't know. And yes, some of these aren't huge names, but everyone has to start somewhere. If somebody would just sign my band, you'd see someone else using them...!!!
BTW, Tony, I'm another Rick/Alembic owner. Granted I do also currently have a Status 5 string for occasional use, but the Ricks/Alembic are my true loves.
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
"I just wish Rick would put a right handed headstock on the c64"
My sentiments exactly. The c64 is THE EXACT BASS that I want, except for the flipped headstock. I guess a V63 would be more exact, but they're no longer in production.
Bob, that's awesome that you know the guys in Coheed . . . if you're still in contact, you think you could ask them to pay a visit to Cleveland (or even better, to Oberlin College) in the near future? Hehehehe . . . I missed going to see them several times for lack of a ride . . . they're one of the best bands out there right now, and definitely one of my all-time favorites.
The thing about people who dislike Rics, though, is that they dislike the 4001/4003 because they think it is gaudy or they think "the sound" is annoying. What about 4004 basses? They've got a very stripped-down, "natural" look that a lot of bassists these days go for, and from what I've heard they sound very different from the 4003. The only things I can think of to explain the lack of them being popular are: a)lack of advertising, and b)lack of active electronics. All I can say is, PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T EVER PUT ACTIVE ELECTRONICS IN YOUR BASSES MR. HALL!!!
My sentiments exactly. The c64 is THE EXACT BASS that I want, except for the flipped headstock. I guess a V63 would be more exact, but they're no longer in production.
Bob, that's awesome that you know the guys in Coheed . . . if you're still in contact, you think you could ask them to pay a visit to Cleveland (or even better, to Oberlin College) in the near future? Hehehehe . . . I missed going to see them several times for lack of a ride . . . they're one of the best bands out there right now, and definitely one of my all-time favorites.
The thing about people who dislike Rics, though, is that they dislike the 4001/4003 because they think it is gaudy or they think "the sound" is annoying. What about 4004 basses? They've got a very stripped-down, "natural" look that a lot of bassists these days go for, and from what I've heard they sound very different from the 4003. The only things I can think of to explain the lack of them being popular are: a)lack of advertising, and b)lack of active electronics. All I can say is, PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T EVER PUT ACTIVE ELECTRONICS IN YOUR BASSES MR. HALL!!!
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jwr2
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beefandbones
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 893
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:27 am
Most 'pros' are afraid to make a statement.
I used to work in the radio syndication business, and I can tell you that popularity and success as a 'pro' in the field of music is almost always tied to catering to someone's expectations, not offending anyone, and sounding like people expect you to sound. Boring.
People play Fenders and Gibsons because they are the two flavors that everyone knows, and thus they mean nothing in particular to anyone. Playing a beat-up looking Fender or Gibson is like trying to be cool by wearing sunglasses. Sunglasses don't make you cool. And anyway, it's a cliche.
Rickenbacker makes professional quality instruments, but I'd venture that most professional musicians don't have the cohones to play a Rickenbacker.
I used to work in the radio syndication business, and I can tell you that popularity and success as a 'pro' in the field of music is almost always tied to catering to someone's expectations, not offending anyone, and sounding like people expect you to sound. Boring.
People play Fenders and Gibsons because they are the two flavors that everyone knows, and thus they mean nothing in particular to anyone. Playing a beat-up looking Fender or Gibson is like trying to be cool by wearing sunglasses. Sunglasses don't make you cool. And anyway, it's a cliche.
Rickenbacker makes professional quality instruments, but I'd venture that most professional musicians don't have the cohones to play a Rickenbacker.
Personally, I like Ricks for what they are & what they aren't at the same time. They are every bit as good quality or better than 95% of all instruments produced in the world. The only ones that are higher quality are so solely due to use of expensive exotic woods, fancier carving, & longer glueing times(LK excluded!).
As far as those exotics, I never liked them at all aesthetically. No question of someone like Stanley Clarke, Wooten, etc. endorsing a product & lending huge credibility as to that instument's quality. It's just that obvious: Stanley wouldn't play something cheap. He's very well off & very highly respected.
I imagine similar ideas have occurred to John & staff from time to time, but the simple fact that the company is probably in better shape financially than the "biggies" & the satisfaction of a TRULY loyal customer base would dissuade most sensible people from fixing something that isn't broken.
And it is hard to get people to accept radically different new things. The Explorer & Flying V were NOT popular in the '50's, but now they sell almost as many as Les Pauls (slight exaggeration).
V and C models are for the vintage enthusiast who can't find or won't take the real deal out of the house. The 4003 is for those of us who like the classic Rick look & appreciate the modern construction, & the 4004 series is moving forward while still retaining some styling cues from the past. Car makers are doing the same thing.
Every guitar maker has had the experience of a radical new model that basically just flops.
Again, personally, I think those Ken Smith, Alembic, & all those ones shown in the NAMM pics are butt ugly! I have very particular ( some would even say limited) tastes & those snaky carved glue sticks just don't interest me at all.
I'm sure they play beautifully & sound great, but if I hate to look at the thing I'd never play it.
Also, pro endorsements really only affect the judgements of newer or more inexperienced players. Those of us who have been around long enough to have tried a few other brands know what we like & buy/play that regardless of who else might do so. It's really a tool to spread awareness of a brand to new potential customers. It doesn't change the minds of experienced players.
My final point is that everyone has (sometimes vastly) differing tastes & there's no pleasing everyone all the time, but I'd say that RIC is doing a damn fine job of pleasing most of the people most of the time.
And JH does have a master plan, by all appearances, so we just have to trust his vision.
Besides, it's his company & he's going to do whatever he thinks is best.
And if we think Ricks deserve a higher profile in the media, then maybe we should do some promoting ourselves.
I really didn't intend to write so much
As far as those exotics, I never liked them at all aesthetically. No question of someone like Stanley Clarke, Wooten, etc. endorsing a product & lending huge credibility as to that instument's quality. It's just that obvious: Stanley wouldn't play something cheap. He's very well off & very highly respected.
I imagine similar ideas have occurred to John & staff from time to time, but the simple fact that the company is probably in better shape financially than the "biggies" & the satisfaction of a TRULY loyal customer base would dissuade most sensible people from fixing something that isn't broken.
And it is hard to get people to accept radically different new things. The Explorer & Flying V were NOT popular in the '50's, but now they sell almost as many as Les Pauls (slight exaggeration).
V and C models are for the vintage enthusiast who can't find or won't take the real deal out of the house. The 4003 is for those of us who like the classic Rick look & appreciate the modern construction, & the 4004 series is moving forward while still retaining some styling cues from the past. Car makers are doing the same thing.
Every guitar maker has had the experience of a radical new model that basically just flops.
Again, personally, I think those Ken Smith, Alembic, & all those ones shown in the NAMM pics are butt ugly! I have very particular ( some would even say limited) tastes & those snaky carved glue sticks just don't interest me at all.
I'm sure they play beautifully & sound great, but if I hate to look at the thing I'd never play it.
Also, pro endorsements really only affect the judgements of newer or more inexperienced players. Those of us who have been around long enough to have tried a few other brands know what we like & buy/play that regardless of who else might do so. It's really a tool to spread awareness of a brand to new potential customers. It doesn't change the minds of experienced players.
My final point is that everyone has (sometimes vastly) differing tastes & there's no pleasing everyone all the time, but I'd say that RIC is doing a damn fine job of pleasing most of the people most of the time.
And JH does have a master plan, by all appearances, so we just have to trust his vision.
Besides, it's his company & he's going to do whatever he thinks is best.
And if we think Ricks deserve a higher profile in the media, then maybe we should do some promoting ourselves.
I really didn't intend to write so much
Plus five minus five!
"Sit on the shore of the river long enough and you'll get to watch the bodies of your adversaries float on by."
Or something to that effect.
The stylistic "pendulum" has already begun to swing back in the RicBass' favor... both sound-wise and looks-wise, IMO. And by "keeping the faith" with what RIC has always done best, that pendulum actually had something concrete to swing back to!
Case in point, what a young man said to me at one of the first gigs I used my C64S at: "That's the most beautiful bass in town!"
Or something to that effect.
The stylistic "pendulum" has already begun to swing back in the RicBass' favor... both sound-wise and looks-wise, IMO. And by "keeping the faith" with what RIC has always done best, that pendulum actually had something concrete to swing back to!
Case in point, what a young man said to me at one of the first gigs I used my C64S at: "That's the most beautiful bass in town!"
My first bass was a Rickenbacker...
My best bass is a Rickenbacker...
My last bass may very well be a Rickenbacker
My best bass is a Rickenbacker...
My last bass may very well be a Rickenbacker
RIC doesn't give away any instruments to these "flavor of the month" bands for free and doesn't have any sales reps making a big commission. These two factors alone make the instrument less expensive. Why should I pay more for a bass just because some no-talent got his for free or a sales rep who's not even a musician got Guitar Center to order 1500 of them? I like 4003's, Ric-O-Sound, mute and all. I've played Alembic and Steinberger and everything in between and after a 20 year absence, came back to RIC because I had a connection with their instruments like no other. As much as I've modified my basses, it's still there in the wood and sound and the shape of the neck. Besides, if one of the new no-talents played one, it would only tarnish RIC's image.
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ricnbacker
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 5:00 am
i would disagree with the amature musician thing. thats fender with their 200 p bass made in Mexico or the player pacs that almost everyone else offers.
ric is definately a high quality instrument.pro grade if you would
i am disappointed with ric as in you cannot find one in your local music store to try out.then the authorized dealer will say i can have one here in 8 or nine months.
8 or nine months!!!! what ?
i got lucky when i bought my 4003 4 years ago, i only waited 3 months.
a few weeks ago i desided to start playing guitar. so natuarally i thought let me go try a few ric`s
well good luck finding one.and try finding a 620. my Authorized dealer laughed, and said maybe next year.
i think it is rediculous to wait a year for an instrument no matter how fine it is.
i would still love to find a 620 or 350 to "try" sometime in my life but till i can find one
i`ll rock out on the Les Paul i just bought.
ric is definately a high quality instrument.pro grade if you would
i am disappointed with ric as in you cannot find one in your local music store to try out.then the authorized dealer will say i can have one here in 8 or nine months.
8 or nine months!!!! what ?
i got lucky when i bought my 4003 4 years ago, i only waited 3 months.
a few weeks ago i desided to start playing guitar. so natuarally i thought let me go try a few ric`s
well good luck finding one.and try finding a 620. my Authorized dealer laughed, and said maybe next year.
i think it is rediculous to wait a year for an instrument no matter how fine it is.
i would still love to find a 620 or 350 to "try" sometime in my life but till i can find one
i`ll rock out on the Les Paul i just bought.
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ricnbacker
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 5:00 am
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green_us90
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 530
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:23 pm
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green_us90
- Intermediate Member
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- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:23 pm
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ken_swearingen
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2298
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:00 pm
You guys are missing the point WE are not the Pro musicians I was referring to The Geddy Lee's and the McCartneys....Ric's target consumers are not US here on the forum otherwise all are prayers would have been answered what is there target consumer? the amateur musician who is star struck just to own a Ric because of urban legend.
Ok everybody pull this one apart....
Ok everybody pull this one apart....