Sort of disappointed with Ric.

86kubicki · Post by **86kubicki** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:11 pm

Ken - in your original post you asked "Do they (Rickenbacker) not make Pro grade instruments?" I'll ask you again - in your opinion, why are Rickenbackers not "pro grade"?

teb · Post by **teb** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:31 pm

If I was building guitars, a decent-sized crowd of people, many of whom own and appreciate half a dozen or more of my products and are willing to wait up to two years to own a new offering WOULD BE my target customers.

This is a bit off of Ken's original topic, but after reading Kevin Cole's comments about the show photos, I'm glad I'm not the only one who found almost all of those basses ugly. When did guitar making become the act of glueing together a bunch of strips of various multi-colored, exotic woods, shaping it to look like a piece of driftwood that's been carved over the years with mother nature's own sandblaster and finishing it like a cutting board? They look like somebody should rig up some spare high-E strings and add a cheese slicer on the back someplace....

Perhaps it's due to my lifelong interest in woodworking (sculpture major back in my college days and wooden boatbuilding ever since) but in my opinion, stacking up a bunch of crazy-colored little hunks of wood and carving it into some natural-looking, free-form shape is more cheap theatrics than craftsmanship. Anybody can do it! It's easy! - but it fools 90% of the population every time who mistake it for some incredible form of craftsmanship.

I'm not saying that some of these builders can't don't or won't make some fine musical instruments, but geeeez I'm sick of that look. It was interesting and unique at first, but now it's everywhere - most likely because it's so easy to do and fools most of the people most of the time. Anyway, off-topic rant over and those of you who like those guitars don't have to agree with me, but I've been wanting to make that point to a bunch of knowledgeable guitar folk for a long time. We now return you to your regular thread.

jps · Post by **jps** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:39 pm

What shape should they make them to like? Fender and Rickenbacker? These luthiers are trying to make a unique shape that won't infringe on some one else's design, and I am sure that is not easy to do. I do agree that most of them are not that appealling, but better to be unique than to look like another's product. As we can see, they end up looking alike anyway!

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:56 pm

Steve, I will ask you Why did Geddy,McCartney,Grover,Rutherford,Waters,Wilkenson,Entwistle,.....Stop playing them?

Do they (Rickenbacker) not make Pro grade instruments?" I was Asking.

Why do all these players no longer take or took Ric's on the road w/them??

Do they not hold up??

They all have said something about having problems w/them on the road.

Isnt touring a part of being a Pro?

Then again I'm asking

86kubicki · Post by **86kubicki** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:30 pm

Regardless of why those particular artists stopped playing their Rics, there are still plenty of recent "pro" musicians who play Rickenbackers today. And don't forget that Squire and Lemmy are still out there with their Rics.

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:32 pm

The general thought of the early Ricks is that they tend to get
finicky on the road. As a lot of roadies also become guitar techs- it's easy to see why one would want a fairly simple instrument to tour with. Look at what happened to the tuners on
Pauls(from the Yardbirds) Rivoli.
My heart broke into a million pieces when I saw Geddy with a Steinbugger in his hands

I've toured with Ricks, But I've always turned my own wrenches, so I've never had a misshap.
Food for thought anyway.....

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:49 pm

Thank you John,thats my point when Geddy,would rather have a jazz bass with him over a Ric.that says a lot right there,and he loved the way his Ric sounded.

Ric. needs to make there basses world class so they can be toured with.

If it falls apart on the road thats not pro grade thats delicate.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:56 pm

Rickenbackers haven't been "finicky on the road" for at least two decades, though. The reason those artists aren't using them anymore is because, at the time when Rickenbackers had psychotic truss rods (or so it was perceived), they decided they didn't want to deal with that and they grabbed new instruments. Geddy, it has been said, owns a newer 4003, yet he still uses the Jazz these days, because he says he has just fallen in love with how it sounds. If you suddenly loved the sound of a bass, you'd use it all the time too . . . which is what's happened to all of us right now . . . we fell in love with the sound (and looks) of Rics.

Old Alembics were NOTORIOUS for falling apart on the road. That's why Entwistle stopped using them. Does that mean that they're not "pro grade" instruments. Absolutely not. You really don't get any more "pro grade" than an Alembic. At the same time, a Japanese Fender will hold up better than 90% of other basses on the road, yet it costs , what, $500? $600? Is it "pro grade"? I guess so, if durability is the defining quality.

Rickenbacker is doing nothing wrong (except they still need to flip that headstock back on the c64). They're producing incredibly high quality instruments for insnanely good prices, and they care about what their customers and fans like. And all the while, they have stayed true to their business ethic, which is more than can be said for the vast majority of other manufacturers.

Final note: Annie's Guitars & Drums, the place in Savannah where I bought my Ric (and my bass amp) always has a Rickenbacker bass in stock. At all times, there is a 4003 on the wall. And it ALWAYS sells. In the time I've known the store, they've gone through like five or six of them (mostly jetglos and mapleglos), including the one that I bought. I saw a mapleglo between several American J-basses. I came back in a couple months. The J-basses were still there, but the Ric was not. In its place was a Montezuma Brown, which I bought, based on my enthusiasm and their recommendations (one of the store guys has a '70s Autumnglo that he gigs with all the time). The next time I went there, there was a jetglo, but the Fenders were all still there. For the store to be THAT assured that these basses will sell means that Rickenbacker is OBVIOUSLY getting it right with their product.

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:26 pm

For one that Japanese fender anything your talking about is better built then the US or Mexican version they are well sought after and a bargain.Ric's have always sold,thats not the question.

Example: Take the 4004 put a strip of graphite down the neck,slim the neck down a bit balanced w/the body keep all the hardware except the bridge use a Schaller and maybe replace the rods w/ one larger rod, exotic wood optional. There's the ULTIMATE BASS.

Its that simple: Reliable,strong,light, simple,awesome sound and looks.

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:30 pm

Example: Take the 4004 put a strip of graphite down the neck,slim the neck down a bit balanced w/the body keep all the hardware except the bridge use a Schaller and maybe replace the rods w/ one larger rod, exotic wood optional. There's the ULTIMATE BASS.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:08 pm

Ken,

Just wondering, are you ever happy ???

winston · Post by **winston** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:21 pm

I like my bass just the way it is. Even if it is only a lowly 4001.

green_us90 · Post by **green_us90** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:23 pm

Ha, lowly 4001. We kill us.

Give me a lowly 4001 over a jazz bass any day.

winston · Post by **winston** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:24 pm

Yep. I agree Dave. But some people are never happy are they?

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:31 pm

I think what Ken is trying to say here is: "Why don't more big-name players play RIC"?
The ones who do aren't exactly "Cutting Edge" anymore, and he would like to see them in the hands of new bands who will create new fans of the brand. (Wow, that kinda sounded like a rap lyric.)
A lot of the new bands get endorsements. They get people tripping over themselves to give them free stuff. RIC doesn't work that way. Neither does Mesa, as far as I know. And yet, they are some of the best stuff out there.
So if you see someone playing a Ric, you know they paid for it and are playing it because they love it, not because someone gave it to them for free, or they are under some contractual obligation to do so.