I need a new amp, reccomendations?

oriolesfan · Post by **oriolesfan** » Wed May 08, 2002 3:38 pm

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the Behringer GX112 Blue Devil 60W 1x12. I have a new 330/6 (my first electric), and was looking for a reasonably priced amp. I'm a relative beginner (~3 years) and don't expect to be playing in public (if I can help it!); just for friends and family.

I've read some good things about it, and it was recommended by a friend as well who's had some experience with Behringer products.

Any suggestions and insights welcome.

Thanks,

Bob

phaseshift · Post by **phaseshift** » Wed May 22, 2002 5:15 am

I messed around with a Line 6 Vetta combo at Guitar Center. I was really impressed. I must say at the outset that I am fairly inexperienced with guitar amps. I've been playing acoustic for 20+ years, and have really only gotten into electric the last few months, buying a Rick 360/12 and a Les Paul Studio. So far, I've only been working with a Pod, and occassionally plugging into my old Peavey bass amp. But I digress.

The Vetta seemed to have a lot of possibilities, and it sounded really really good. I found one in the scratch-n-dent section at Music123.com for $1400, and ordered it. It should arrive any day now, along with the pedalboard. I've seen them on ebay with "Buy it now!" prices even lower.

Try one out. Line 6 says the technology is greatly improved over the Flextone series.

cobrav · Post by **cobrav** » Wed May 22, 2002 6:49 am

Hi David,

Welcome to the ranks of "Vettanarians." I think you will be pleased with that amp. First, it is a very versatile amp which also means it has a lot of different things to tweak to get a variety of sounds. Because of that some folks may find it a little frustrating at first and get discouraged. I think it's the same reason they don't start student pilots out in 777's. If you have been using a POD, you should have a head start already.

A geat amount of Vetta information can be found at this site:

http://www.geocities.com/nathanshane/index.htm

In case you're interested, there is a post somewhere in the 'Byrds' topic that explains how to get a good 'jingle, jangle' on a 360/12 using a Vetta. Best of luck with your amp.

Regards,
Chuck

tracy · Post by **tracy** » Thu May 23, 2002 6:25 am

The BAD CAT Black Cat 30 is The Bomb. Mark Sampson's latest and greatest stunning achievement. As y'all know, he's dialed in the VOX thing to a science and the BAD CAT is what he did for Matchless to the next power. Idiot proof operation (just ask me) and fail safe jangle make these amps the next big deal! Try it!!

aladams · Post by **aladams** » Thu May 23, 2002 7:43 am

N O T H I N G!!!! Beats an Old Fender Tweed (low power) Twin...N O T H I N G!!! Unequivocally! AL A.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Thu May 23, 2002 9:21 am

N O T H I N G!!!! Beats an Old Fender Tweed (low power) Twin...N O T H I N G!!! Unequivocally! AL A

Some truth to that, However!! A Fender is STILL NOT A VOX! and vice versa.A guy looking for that Vox sound will Not find it in Any Fender, nor will the reverse happen. You have to use What Works For You!!

phaseshift · Post by **phaseshift** » Fri May 24, 2002 5:26 am

Chuck, thanks for that link. My Vetta arrived yesterday, and so far my only complaint is that it's hard to make it quiet enough not to disturb my neighbors!

I haven't played in a band in a bit more than a decade.... gotta change that.

philco · Post by **philco** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:11 am

The Canadian built Traynor YCV40 is a best-buy bargain. It's tone is between a Deluxe Reverb and a Marshall Plexi. Much better made than a Vox Cambridge 30 because it has a birch plywood cabinet and metal mesh backing the grill cloth. It also has regulated heater supplies, comes with a footswitch, a long-spring Accutronics reverb, and is 100% tube gain circuitry.

The Marshall AVT50 costs about the same, weighs about the same, has an Accutronics reverb also, and will save you a bundle in maintenance costs by eliminating the output tubes, but the cabinet is particle board, not plywood. It sounds like a tubed Marshall amp.

Both models have 12" Celestion speakers and sound good. I couldn't decide which I liked best, so I bought both. Unfortunately, both cost considerably more than a Vox Cambridge 30, but both play a lot louder.

wileyibex · Post by **wileyibex** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:20 am

I have a Traynor YCV40, too.

I like it in many ways, but I would mention that mine self-immolated in the early fall. I was just playing along contentedly when I heard popping and cracking noises, then booms, then there was the smell...of smoke, followed by billows of white smoke and "electrical" noises. It was at about that point that I discerned that there might be a problem.

The dealer, Alan's Music, sat on it for about 2 months waiting for parts which never arrived. They eventually shipped it back to Traynor, who repaired/replaced the thing and sent it back. All in all, I was out the amp for about 90 days. It was returned to me without the footswitch cable, which I had to replace (about $10). My biggest gripe? That neither Traynor nor the dealer said, "Give the man another amp while we have his." Not great customer-oriented service on either's part.

So would I buy another? Maybe; but I would shop Marshall and other brands before I went with another Traynor.

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:06 pm

Paul, you must have one of the early Traynors. I read on Harmony Central that several of the owners had problems, but most of them were OK, so maybe Traynor got it sorted out. Anything with power tubes has a tendency to self destruct if one of the output tubes shorts out. Also, it may be a good idea to pull any cheapo Russian power tubes it might have in it. Amp companies rarely use the best Russian power tubes, such as Svetlana or Electro-Harmonix, in their amps. Usually the lowest grade of Sovtek they can scrounge up. Angela Instruments can sell you some NOS power tubes. I tried a couple of their EI ECC83 tubes, patterned after the Telefunken ECC83 flat plate, for $5 and was pleased, but they have a past reputation for going microphonic. They sure sound nice, though.

Also, several of the owners of Marshall's AVT series reported problems, and I can verify that it is not the best quality I have seen; cheap particle board construction, not plywood like Traynor. A Fender service center told me that the Mexican made amps (Blues Jr., Hot Rod DeVille, etc.) are having major problems, but the American made ones like the Deluxe Reverb and Twin were OK. Vox has also had a lot of problems with their Korean made amps, I believe. That includes the expensive Valvetronix, which few people can fix because of the complex digital circuitry.

I don't care much for customer service, unless an expensive part is ruined, like a transformer. For those who can't repair electronics like I can, you need a spare amp to use while your old one is being fixed. The Kustom Tube 12 is very cheap and sounds decent and is dirt cheap at $100. Amps have become cheap in relation to guitars. It wasn't that way 25 years ago.

Did anyone mention Ampeg? They made some of the nicest sounding amps I ever heard. The SVT was and is an awesome bass amp. But it weighs a ton and is expensive, because it's a 300W tubed powerhouse. Their old amps sell for reasonable prices on eBay.

Traynors use glass epoxy circuit boards, and Marshall AVT's use resin impregnated paper, so stick with that Traynor, Paul, as long as it gives good service. Their old amps had a really good reputation. Everyone that uses tube amps has a horror story to tell, so now you have yours. My Heathkit W-5M amps had to have power transformer replacements recently at $128 + S&H just for the parts, and that's a cheap price.

There are lots of amp reviews on Harmony Central.

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:43 pm

Hey, Paul, if you are really interested there are some really good amps that nobody mentioned. Two of the best are Sunn and HiWatt. (It sounds like you're not the typical Rick fanatic that's stuck on Vox and Fender.) They are similar in design being built to be played very loud and clean. Not for home practice, you set their big tube heads on a stack and let it roar. I believe it was HiWatt that made a major contribution to Pete Townshend's deafness. LOL Both brands are known for extreme reliability, if you can find a good example. The HiWatt brand is back in business, and they have a nice little all tube 20W combo amp. Fender bought Sunn, but I doubt they kept the spirit alive. Sunn made a nice little 50W combo if you can find one. Musician's Friend was closing them out recently. Also, don't forget Garnett, that other great Canadian brand (besides Traynor), if you run across a good used one. If you own a 650D and want to explore the ways of Heavy Metal, then a Randall stack just might be your slice of Nirvana. My brother once owned a Randall RH100 halfstack that was previously owned by Dimebag Darrell of Pantera. It gets those "chunka chunka" metal tones really well. The 650D guitar sounds great with a lot of amps besides a Vox or Fender, and it does heavy metal really well. It doesn't come in suitable finishes for metal players, but the natural oiled maple finish soaks up bloodstains really well. LOL It might make you want you to get a few tattoos and body piercings as well, so be careful!

philco · Post by **philco** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:23 am

I might also add before I leave this amp topic, that the EL84 tube was NEVER intended for inverted mounting. It was designed to dissipate its heat from the top of the tube. I hope you noticed it is a tall skinny tube that uses a nine-pin miniature socket just like a 12AX7 preamp tube. You can check everything out if you can find an appropriate spec sheet on the internet.

Inverted mounting allows too much heat buildup in the base of the tube. This causes breakdown of the seals in the glass base leading to eventual tube failure. Tubes must be designed for inverted operation if you want reliability in that configuration. Consult an official manufacturer's spec sheet if in doubt.

I believe the Vox AC-15, AC-30, Fender Blues Junior, and many others mount the EL84 tube in an inverted position. This has been discussed in other forums as the main cause of the high failure rates in Vox amps among users that drive them hard for long periods of time. I have heard that Lenny Kravitz and The Edge of U2 have two sets of AC-30 amps they use in order to address the heat buildup problem, by using them alternately throughgout a live performance.

If I owned one of these amps like a lot of Rickenbacker owners do, I would be looking into increased ventilation of my EL84 tubes by installing a cooling fan, air vents, or something along that line. I have noticed that a lot of guitar amp designers these days seem to have never looked at those spec sheets. They tend to blindly follow what a possibly somewhat amateurish engineer did in the early days of tubed music amps. The really good engineers were usually working in the defense or commercial industries back then. That is why the 5881 tube is such a good tube for combo amps. It was designed to be used in the servo control systems of a B52 bomber and be absolutely reliable in a high vibration environment. Leo Fender was quick to grab onto that rugged military tube that just happened to sound good in a bass amp.

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:40 pm

All you guitar players in here should keep in mind that I'm merely a humble bass player. But I DO try to follow closely whatever I can pick up on guitar amps. Having said that........... There is a brand of guitar amp out that is slowly gaining a reputation for extremely high build quality, with tone to match. I have talked at length with an amp guru in my homestate who rates this guitar amp as perhaps the best he's ever heard and played. The brand is called Dr.Z. My plan is to visit this amp guru's guitar & amp store on a Saturday in the very near future and give this amp a listen. (I'll bring my 2 Ric guitars and a friend who is a real guitar player.) The model in particular is a Maz 18 Junior; a 38 watt model is available for the player who needs more headroom for larger gig venues.

If anyone here at the forum has any experience with any of the Dr.Z amps, I'd love for you to post it here. I'll do the same as soon as I have an opportunity to listen to one.

philco · Post by **philco** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 9:17 pm

Jeffery, I am sure the Dr. Z amp is good, as in fact most boutique amps are that are built in small quantities and sold at a high price. If you can afford a Dr. Z, you will have no trouble finding an amp to your liking. I know there is one Dr. Z model that uses KT66 tubes that caught my interest. I think it is the 38 watt model you spoke about and I believe it is called the Route 66. The KT66 is a great tube, and some audiophiles consider it the finest audio output tube ever made. I have a pair of old Heathkit amps from the early 60's that use KT66 tubes, and they sound sweet. Did you know that Sovtek KT66 tubes can be used in amps that run 6L6 or 5881 tubes? They have a reduced heater current compared to the original KT66 tubes that will not overload the filament windings of a 6L6 amp. I plan on trying some in my Traynor YCV40 amp as I have 4 spares laying around doing nothing. The KT66 tube was the first high fidelity tube that was not a triode tube, and it corrected the design deficiency (a kink in the transfer curve) of the 6L6 tube to make it suitable for high fidelity music reproduction in high quality sound reinforcement systems. A Peavey Classic 30 with KT66 output tubes and NOS or JJ Tesla preamp tubes will probably compete in sound quality with a lot of boutique amps out there, if the speakers in the amps are of similar quality and the signal capacitors are upgraded.

You will probably like the Dr. Z Route 66, but my wallet demands that I have to stick with something like an upgraded Traynor, Peavey, or Ampeg.

Those Sovtek KT66 tubes cost $25 a pop from places like The Tube Store, for anybody interested in having a poor man's Dr. Z Route 66.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 2:40 am

Philco: Good point on the heating up of the Vox AC-30. The designers of the reissues of the 1990s have addressed this, to some extent, by installing bigger heat vents on the top of the amplifier.