In What Finishes Were 21-Fret 4001 Basses Made Available?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:22 pm

Since I'm one of the surely few owners of a 21-fret 4001 (in Fireglo), naturally I'm interested in knowing as much as I can about this, the ultimate version of the 4001 Bass. So far I've seen (or heard about) them in Fireglo and in Mapleglo. Were they made available in other finishes? Jetglo? Azureglo? White? I'd like to hear an expert (John Hall, Mark Arnquist, Don Adamek and some others) on this. Thanks.

dminer · Post by **dminer** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:31 pm

Sergio,
I'm no expert, but I did check out the 60's and 75 catalogs on the Rickenbacker site. The 60's catalog says that all 4000 models were available in FG and MG, but, they show a 4001 in Jetglow. So, I would guess that until the early 70's models anything but FG and MG was a custom color order (at least on the basses.) Here's the link....
http://www.rickenbacker.com/images/cf68-7.jpg

My VG price guide also only lists FG and MG as examples up until 70 although apparently the 4000 was available in black (not jetglow) as early as 1962.

It would be interseting to know exactly when Jetglow became a color choice (as opposed to black) and if Azureglow, Wine red and other custom colors could have been ordered in the 60's.
Keep on Rick'n, David

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:56 pm

Other than what anyone else has posted here on the 21 fret basses, I must plead total ignorance on this one. I would not have known about it except for this Forum, unless perhaps I stumbled onto one in some shop somewhere...

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:15 am

Many thanks, David. In fact, part of the info provided by the above link is to be found on page 208 of Richard Smith's book. Interestingly enough, it has shed some light on a related area: there appears to have been a short period in time when ALL Rick bass models came with 21-fret necks.
On page 205 of Smith's book you can admire a true rarity: a 1967 experimental 4001S. Basically it's a 4005 with a 4001 body. Wow!
Keep more info coming, guys. Thanks again.

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:58 am

David, I know that Burgundy and Azureglo were available colors in the 60s because I have seen examples of both of these. Check out the color timeline on Mike Parks site for more details...
I own a 21 fret bass, in fireglo, and I have seen at least two others that were mapleglo.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:59 am

Just to keep this topic active, when were 21 fret 4001s introduced and discontinued? I don't think anyone has provided a definite answer to that yet. Introduced 1968 and discontinued early 1972? Come on, give me some info!

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:59 am

Sergio: I think it was more of a custom-option to have a 21-fret neck 4001 than a standardized model; there may have been some reasoning behind this, but of the examples that are known to exist, it seems they are scattered about somewhat in the total production of 4001 basses. Think of it along the same lines as when Rickenbacker started making model 360 guitars with 24-fret necks, circa 1971; you only see them here and there (I had heard that they made a run of 50 of these guitars around 1970-71.) Of course, the 24-fret neck became standard on these guitars in the early 1970's. These basses were made by RIC at a time when a custom guitar/bass was fairly easy to obtain.

Maybe someone who possesses a catalogue from this era or a price list can provide some additional data on the 21-fret neck option, and if it was an extra-cost add on to the overall price of the bass...

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:38 pm

Not that I've ever even seen a 21 fret 4001, but..it seems to me from pics I've see of them that the neck and fingerboard are the same length and that the scale has been shortened slightly by moving the bridge/tailpiece closer to the neck making it possible to fit another fret on the board. I do happen to have TWO 21 fret Ricks though....model 3000's! Four E's baby...smoke 'em if ya got 'em!

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:25 am

The 20 fret fingerboard is roughly 23 2/8" long, whereas the 21 fret one is 23 7/8" long. The 21 fret scale also is a bit longer - by roughly 2/8".
Yes, the bridge on a 21 fret 4001 is located noticeably farther from the body edge. This has been discussed before on the Forum.
Dane, when were your 3000 basses made?

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:14 am

So does this mean a 21 fret 4001 has a slightly shorter scale length (nut to saddle) than the conventionals?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:55 am

No, it is somewhat longer, as I've pointed out hereabove.

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:57 am

One of my 3000's was made in March of '76 and the other was made in August of '79. From the factory both bridges were located too close to the neck so I had to move them back so the basses would intonate correctly. Other than that, they are a joy to play with necks of about the same thickness as 60's 4001's. I have Pyramid flats on one and Rickenbacker rounds on the other.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:01 am

Sergio,
Forgive my ignorance but doesn't "scale length" of a bass mean the distance from the nut to the G saddle?
Since the bridge is farther from the body edge (closer to the neck) on a 21 fret 4001, doesn't it make for a shorter scale length?
Please enlighten me. (You know I'm still learning.)

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:03 am

Hi, Paul. Well, all I can say is that the measuring tape says otherwise! Seriously, though, the reasoning is simple: the bridge is moved forward because the extra fretboard length entailed by the additional fret does not extend into, but rather FROM the body of the guitar. In other words, the distance from the end of the fretboard to the opposite edge of the body remains the same. However, the scale length increases slightly, though you're led to think otherwise.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:13 am

Ah! I understand now!
Thank you, Sergio, for another lesson.
So the distance from the nut to the 20th fret on both 20 and 21 fret basses are identical. And the 21st fret is at where the neck joins the body (like the 20th fret of a 20 fret 4001 bass).

Man, I was real stupid!