Replacement pickups?

gshadoan · Post by **gshadoan** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:49 am

Well Rob, LOUD LOUD LOUD sucks IMO. Its all about system preformace envolope. If you exceed it, you suck. If you are a big tour act, playing big rooms, and play louder than the system can deal with, it is bad.. Also, presonally I think it's rude for a band to think that damageing thier fans hearing is a good thing. As to what you think people want, has nothing to do with being semi-responsible. Morden equipment/PA's (and I include 70's SVT and Marshall majors LOL) can and does cause hearing loss on a daily basis. If you deafen your audience, who will come to see your reunion tour. I guess as a sound guy I'm a little sensitive to irr-responsible muso's who think they can damge hearing with impunity, or think its cool to play REALLY loud all the time. Like I said before, IME people who play really "loud loud loud" mostly suck suck suck.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:49 am

good post Greg ...

rhampshire · Post by **rhampshire** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:50 am

"Bottom line is that there is no "THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE" rule for every type of player, and every band situation."

AMEN.

For example: our guitar player has a very warm low-midrangey sound, so he can get away with more volume than other guitar players who have the trebly 'searing marshall on 11' sound.

The last time we played at a small club in baltimore (which we play often), there was a new sound guy. Even though our stage volume was loud, he said our volume levels (guitar, bass & drums) were very even and that we were one of the easiest-to-mix bands he's ever run sound for.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:52 am

and Rob ... I will take your word that your band is tight ... but for me lower stage volume helps a band play tighter and higher stage volume means more miscues ... I like to play loud enough to have balls and quiet enough to protect my hearing ...

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:42 am

I totally understand what you are saying Greg. I played with one band that had a hard hittign drummer and all ouf our jams had to be at blistering volume to balance things out (he couldn't play quiet). Made for bad volume for the small club gigs we were doing. Fine for us cause our hearing was used to it... but the general public was in pain, and the soundguy was ****** as hell at our drummer. I left that band.

Tightness on stage is not so much an issue of volume being high or low onstage... but ***balanced***. I hate when I can not hear one member of the band... I play best when I can hear everything. The trick is that to hear everything, often the best solution is to turn people down over turn others up. Guitarists and drummers tend to forget that....

I have also learned to get a soundguy that doesn't have hearing loss himself because what he thinks is fine often hurts people near the front of the venue. I'm a stickler for these types of issues... I don't understand why others are not... but nothing against guitarists or drummers, but in my experience they are more likley to be happy as a pig in you know what hearing nothing but themselves. NO wonder they don't thnk bass is as important.

david_schwab · Post by **david_schwab** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:04 am

Valve amps are where it's at. Digital effects claim to 'emulate' the tone of classic valve amps...

In my opinion tube amps sound way too mushy for bass. I have a Mesa 400+, all new tubes, etc. If you want a "vintage" sound, it's great, but it's a mushy sound. Recently I played though brand new Aguilar DB 750, and after about 2 minutes decided I hated it! I couldn't hear my bass, only the sound of the amp. After trying a half dozen amps, I decided the only one I liked was some of the SWR stuff.... especially the LA 12 combo. Sounded the most like my bass.

I also dislike most of this amp modeling stuff. More mush. I did get an interesting distorted tone using a Fender Twin model in my Roland digital mixer recently however.

Do What Makes Your Heart Sing (Part I)

But my new rig is turning out to be a Yamaha guitar preamp, to a power amp and run into a 2-way PA cab with a 12" and a horn.

The preamp even has a dirty channel.

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:15 am

Different strokes for different folks David. I'm a huge fan of tube "dirt"... but as an SWR user I think you are on oppisite sides of the spectrum from me. I will forgive you... *ducks for cover*

One thing I like about my Traynor YBA200 tube amp is the "resonance" knob where I can adjust the amp's dampening factor... so if I want tighter bottom I can have it... or I can give myself lots of vintage "mush." I think traynor tried hard to make the YBA200 reproduce classic tube tone... but also allow users to tone in some "scoop" and trebble and bass boost for the modern hi-fi sound.

I go for boosting high mids with a tight bottom, though... I'm not much into slapping.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:29 am

I hear a lot of guitar players say they can't get the 'tone' they want unless they play loud...well, I think that is ****, and they haven't done enough research. It is entirely possible to get 'the sound' while keeping your stage volume down.

I know a guy who plays in front of 4 to 5000 people regularly and uses a Blues Junior, LOL!!

Greg is right, you need discipline..no matter where you are.

david_schwab · Post by **david_schwab** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:34 am

Oh I don't use an SWR... I just said I liked playing a few. Currently I use a Trace Elliot combo, but I'm getting ready to sell it (and the Mesa). I'm not using the Trace's preamp, because it's too dull sounding. I have a Yamaha preamp plugged into the effects return. The Yamaha gives me a nice punchy burp of a sound, with very smooth warm bottom.

I also dislike that scooped sound... I leave my highs and lows fairly flat and boost the mids. (in a Homer voice) "Mmmmmm... mids"

I go for a tight bottom with growly mids and a detailed top end. From there I can dirty it up if I want.

When I slap I just use the EMG 40P in the neck position and boost the highs a bit on my bass (not a Ric, of course...)

I just find so many amps mess too much with the sound of my bass, which I've gotten to know so well from plugging direct into my studio monitors. So you really hear the sound of the amp, more than your instrument.

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:43 am

"I go for a tight bottom with growly mids and a detailed top end. From there I can dirty it up if I want."

Maybe we are not so different after all. But then using a ric for a scooped sound seems counter-intuative to me.

rhampshire · Post by **rhampshire** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:11 pm

Now you guys are speaking my language - mids!

I had a mesa 400+ for a few years, I hated it. Apples and oranges compared to the real deal early 70's SVT. The mesa 400+ is basically a fender showman preamp with a huge output section. The preamp is passive, so 'flat' is bass and treble on zero, mids on 10. You can't boost the mids (unless you use the graphic eq) and get that midrangey roar that an SVT can. I usually run my SVT's with the bass and treble at 12:00 and the mids between 1:00 and 2:00.

gshadoan · Post by **gshadoan** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:07 pm

/"For example: our guitar player has a very warm low-midrangey sound, so he can get away with more volume than other guitar players /"

Its not really "getting away" with anything. Its more like "sound 101". Mids and Lows take more power/energy to equel the same spl as High's. If the sound crew say "we were one of the easiest-to-mix" is sound guy speak for you WEREN'T too loud, and you dont suck

so you must not be as loud as you think you are.
And incidently Rob, I didn't mean to imply that YOU suck. In the last ten years I have probably mixed 1000 or more different bands, in all kinds of situations, along with playing in bands. Bands that tend to be easy to mix ARE disciplined, and have a great mix coming off the stage, and work within the confines of the venue (room, and system). Muso's who I see who have a bad additude right off the bat with production, are the ones that don't get it yet. They think that we are the enemy when in fact we are their new best freinds, or should be as far as they are concerned. PFFT, dumbass's. Didn't yo mama tell you "Don't **** off the sound guy" before you went on tour. Lots of total NooBs out there.
They still don't get the fact that we are (almost) as important to their success as they are. We can make them. Being smart and discplined as a band includes listening to the sound guy, and doing pretty much what ever he may suggest, no matter how you think it should be done. Gtr players who think they need to run at 115db to "get that sound" need a freakin hot plate. As pointed out, a 35 watt 1-12" combo is most of the time prefectly adequate for gtr. A 50 watt and 1 4X12" is the most you will EVER need. Most bands that tour with 2-3 full stacks, use ONE cab, and the rest are props/dummies, sometimes not even loaded. Allot lighter that way. Less is more. (Capt. Obvious siging out)

green_us90 · Post by **green_us90** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:43 pm

Greg- all good points and you obviously have a great grasp on what is needed to set up a band for success.

I'm sure most would want this thread to continue, so please watch the profanity- in fact it might be a good idea to edit your post.

Personally I don't care if there is profanity but I know there are etiquette (sic) rules here- and I want to continue to see good inputs from you and others on this thread.

Thanks!
-Dave

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:25 pm

Greg ... I wish I had you to run sound when I play ... I usually get bafoons ...

I have set my rig up to produce mids ... the 10" speakers that I use are pa midrange speakers ... I get the crisp highs and chest thumping sub frequencies from the sound system ...

dminer · Post by **dminer** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:37 pm

QUOTE---"Most bands that tour with 2-3 full stacks, use ONE cab, and the rest are props/dummies, sometimes not even loaded. Allot lighter that way. Less is more."

How true! My old band played an opening slot for the original AC/DC back in the 70's and that's exactly what they did....1 real stack and 2 or 3 dummies that didn't even have the speakers!!! Even back then the drummer and myself wore earplugs because our guitarist had a 100 watt Marshall and 3 cabinets....

Still, after years of loud rock my ears use to ring all of the time...it was only after getting into a quieter blues band that the ringing finially stopped. My girlfriend still gets mad at me for asking her to repeat herself...if there's loud noise going on or if my head is turned the other way all I hear is a jumble.