325/1996 on Ebay

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:25 am

IMO the guitar is pretty nice, although I'd like to see better pics for sure. JWilli could be right about that lower guard, it's hard to tell from the auction pics. It'd look great in my house for sure, LOL...

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:18 am

First chilly, then freeeeezing.

Now, warming up.

The only thing we know for sure is that the owner flunked third grade!

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:48 am

No bids yet...

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:04 am

He responded to my email inquiring about its authenticity. Here is his resaponse.

"Item: John Lennon 1964 325 Electric Rickenbacker Guitar (7391931380)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
zimbabwemusic is the seller.

I`m not sure what you mean bud, if you`re asking if it`s an authentic 325 1964 Rickenbacker, it definately is that. It was one of the few Rickenbackers that was sent to Capetown South Africa at that time. Rickenbacker was hardly known in South Africa at that time and was also an expensive guitar to buy compared to Fender. I bought it from a relatively well known South African musician who used to write music for a very famous South African band called 4 Jacks and a Jill. This guy bought it from a Cape Town music store in 1966 and it is certainly not a fake. The guy I bought it from is as honest as the hills and he bought it because it was one of the 2 325`s that John Lennon was playing at the time. Lennon also played the black one. Hope this helps anyone out there who has their doubts".

What do you think?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:21 am

I don't think its a fake for a minute. The story is believable enough, but one thing that would be hard to find out is that whether the guitar is part of the Rose-Morris 1996 shipments or a 325; you would need confirmation from RIC for that...

Having said that, chances are it is a RM1996 if it came from South Africa.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:39 am

I remember 4 Jacks and a Jill.

They were one-hit wonders in the USA. "It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack..."

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:17 pm

Looks OK to me, but our friend Atsushi seems sure otherwise. What say you Atsushi? Why is it not real?

36012 · Post by **36012** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:46 pm

I'm no expert either, but I think it is real. It has no neck volute.Not to say the volute is a clear indication. I would get pictures of the control cavity to see what the inside routing looks like if I was unsure.The writing in the cavity might provide some insight too.

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:17 pm

I know of two other Rose Morris 1996's within the same DD 3XX serial number range. Keeping in mind that they were supposedly shipped in batches of 25, this one appears to fit.

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 am

I once had a '64 325 that would have been identical to this one (before someone routed and refinished it). I think the serial number started with 'DG' and it definitely had a rounded heel. From the pictures, I can't tell if this one is authentic. The F-hole shape is slightly odd, but I know there were many minor differences between production runs on these guitars with regard to F-hole size, angle and location.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:25 am

I tend to agree Glen. One thing I noticed was that the case was lacking the metal Rickenbacker emblem on the bottom half, many of the RM guitars had this. FWIW the case looks like it never had one.

Randy, this one has the earlier F-hole design from the late 50's, the '2pm' f-hole. Your '64 more than likely had the later type (1pm) which ran more perpendicular with the neck..

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:48 am

John: Mine had the two o'clock F-hole (BTW Mr. Hall hates that terminology). I think the shape of this F-hole is slightly odd. That said, I have three Model 1997 reissue guitars built from 1989-1999 that have F-holes of differing size, shape and width. I've heard that in the 1960's several different jigs were used and that the operator 'eyeballed' the jig position on the face of the guitar. Irregularity of the F-hole therefore shouldn't be used to determine the authenticity of this guitar. I'm about to place my order for one of the new Model 1996's, leaving the hardcore collectors to fight over the originals.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:08 am

John, I think you mean "parallel with the neck".

Just attempting to conform to the clarity paradigm, sorry.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:51 am

LOL, it's Monday. Thanks Paul, I guess it would be a 3 or 4 o'clock f-hole. Parallel it is!

Randy: Yeah, I know JH hates that, hee hee (sorry John)..it's a hard habit to break. The f-hole on this guitar still has much more in common with the earlier style from the 1958-60 period than it does to the later style, in both position and style, and fits in with other RM1996 guitars made in it's sn# range. It seems that we see more variation in them concerning the position from late 1964-on with the later style, IMO...

The 1997 f-holes had more in common with the later F-hole, like on Fogerty's 325 both in shape and position from what I can tell....

If yours was a DG number had the 2pm style it would be one of the latest observed, going by Glen's data...June/July seems to be the time frame for the change from one to the other.

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:15 am

How does John Hall refer to the f-hole positions?