In the middle and late 1950s the United States had a very strong hold on the rock and roll music scene. Very unique artists aside, the record producers, music publishers and song writing teams were in place and set the tone for those who would record and in what way.
While there were notable exceptions, the force of the industry came from the United States as if it was picked up by the gulf stream and cast on the shores of the United Kingdom. Just an unusual piece of driftwood appears on the shore, a pocket of artists emerged in the more isolated region of Northern England that would change the tide.
What was it about Liverpool and the surrounding area that enabled so many talents to emerge with a force that would, for a few years at least, out shine performers in America?
I would like to explore this question in this thread. How were these groups able to turn the global music industry on its ear and threaten the livelihood of many talented US artists?
Why was it initially characterized as an Invasion rather than a Renaissance? Why did it really only span a period of a few years? Will it return?
I have spent a fair bit of time thinking about this phenomenon and I am most interested in your analysis of the British Invasion.
A Watershed In 1960s Rock Music
A Watershed In 1960s Rock Music
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Peter.
Liverpool is a port city and before the advent of global communication there was always a vibrancy that came with living in a city that dealt in worldwide commerce.
In many ways it was that particular advantage that became the catalyst for the musicians in that city. They were able to obtain American music long before the rest of the country in general. The fact that they interpreted it in their own way is a combination of two factors. One lack of resources (making do with the instruments they had etc) and two wanting to better it or put their own stamp on it.
Those two factors as it happens are also very strong British traits.
Why was it called an "invasion"? Well it could be that the songs that came back were not copies. In many ways they were raw and perhaps to some ears better. So it became an invasion of culture rather than a military action.
Just my two cents worth and of course my humble opinion based on observations at the time.
Liverpool is a port city and before the advent of global communication there was always a vibrancy that came with living in a city that dealt in worldwide commerce.
In many ways it was that particular advantage that became the catalyst for the musicians in that city. They were able to obtain American music long before the rest of the country in general. The fact that they interpreted it in their own way is a combination of two factors. One lack of resources (making do with the instruments they had etc) and two wanting to better it or put their own stamp on it.
Those two factors as it happens are also very strong British traits.
Why was it called an "invasion"? Well it could be that the songs that came back were not copies. In many ways they were raw and perhaps to some ears better. So it became an invasion of culture rather than a military action.
Just my two cents worth and of course my humble opinion based on observations at the time.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
Brian,
I appreciate your comments and have read them with great interest seeing as you were in the middle of things, so to speak.
That Liverpool was an information highway in the early 1960s seems to be clear. Both music, ideas and instruments made their way to Britain through this port city. Interestingly, Harrison's Duojet would seem to have been had though a sailor on one of the ships.
I agree completely that the scarcity of equipment led Liverpudlian's to "make do" as they did in so many other respects throughout their history. When speaking to a man who grew up in Liverpool, he said "Scousers had a great sense of humour, because they had to." To follow from your comments, Liverpool artists took some US material that was rather heavily produced and scaled it down using just guitars and drum as opposed to the orchestras that were used across the pond. To my way of thinking, the stripped down versions led to the raw, "bare bones" sound that had such appeal to their audiences. Being separated from the more cosmopolitan areas of England, I would argue that Scouser Rock evolved in part due to this isolation.
I am not sure who coined the work Invasion, however, it certainly seems to have put the scare in the North American market. In the end, all would be the stronger for it.
A perfect example of the "for the better" sound, at least to my way of thinking is seen in the early songs of the Beatles where they took songs like Mr. Postman, Twist and Shout and the like and made them their own. To be honest, I heard a number of these songs for the first time through the Beatles.
I appreciate your comments and have read them with great interest seeing as you were in the middle of things, so to speak.
That Liverpool was an information highway in the early 1960s seems to be clear. Both music, ideas and instruments made their way to Britain through this port city. Interestingly, Harrison's Duojet would seem to have been had though a sailor on one of the ships.
I agree completely that the scarcity of equipment led Liverpudlian's to "make do" as they did in so many other respects throughout their history. When speaking to a man who grew up in Liverpool, he said "Scousers had a great sense of humour, because they had to." To follow from your comments, Liverpool artists took some US material that was rather heavily produced and scaled it down using just guitars and drum as opposed to the orchestras that were used across the pond. To my way of thinking, the stripped down versions led to the raw, "bare bones" sound that had such appeal to their audiences. Being separated from the more cosmopolitan areas of England, I would argue that Scouser Rock evolved in part due to this isolation.
I am not sure who coined the work Invasion, however, it certainly seems to have put the scare in the North American market. In the end, all would be the stronger for it.
A perfect example of the "for the better" sound, at least to my way of thinking is seen in the early songs of the Beatles where they took songs like Mr. Postman, Twist and Shout and the like and made them their own. To be honest, I heard a number of these songs for the first time through the Beatles.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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These are probably the best questions I have ever heard on this forum! I believe it could actually be the thesis for a much needed book. I’d buy it!
For me, growing up in the US, I was, and am still much enamored by what was called, for media reasons to sell papers -- The British Invasion. There has always been another side to British sensibility, lyrics, their guitar sounds -- generated by knowledgeable old school production that added another dimension to rock ‘n’ roll music. This was their magic! Frankly, as I’ve noticed traveling abroad, that sentiments & feelings are reflected much better in the UK and generally in all of Europe. And it is encouraged! Most American music, not all, would tell you that “they are in love” when the Beatles told you why. They always expressed the next revelation of a sentiment.
I have good ideas why American lyrics are not as powerful and expressive but I believe it would spark a political feud -- which I’d like to avoid.
As bad as this sounds – I think The British Invasion era lasted only as long as it did for the old reason that popular music continually changes, whether we like it or not. Unfortunately I believe that the generations of music that has passed since the sixties have gotten worse. There are elements (melodies, arrangements etc) that were important carryovers from previous generations and only ADDED to the “sound of the 60’s.” There was respect for the past. There isn’t now.
For me, growing up in the US, I was, and am still much enamored by what was called, for media reasons to sell papers -- The British Invasion. There has always been another side to British sensibility, lyrics, their guitar sounds -- generated by knowledgeable old school production that added another dimension to rock ‘n’ roll music. This was their magic! Frankly, as I’ve noticed traveling abroad, that sentiments & feelings are reflected much better in the UK and generally in all of Europe. And it is encouraged! Most American music, not all, would tell you that “they are in love” when the Beatles told you why. They always expressed the next revelation of a sentiment.
I have good ideas why American lyrics are not as powerful and expressive but I believe it would spark a political feud -- which I’d like to avoid.
As bad as this sounds – I think The British Invasion era lasted only as long as it did for the old reason that popular music continually changes, whether we like it or not. Unfortunately I believe that the generations of music that has passed since the sixties have gotten worse. There are elements (melodies, arrangements etc) that were important carryovers from previous generations and only ADDED to the “sound of the 60’s.” There was respect for the past. There isn’t now.
Leprosy is rare & scarce but nobody wants that!
Just a couple of suggestions...
1. Why Invasion not Renaissance? As Brian & Mike have already stated, those young guys from UK added their own ideas, feelings, emotions, etc. It was different, dare i say much different?
2. Why it didn't last too long? My suggestion is because it was already show business. The producers wanted to make as much money as possible. The young musicians had to "work like dogs". No wonder they felt exhausted in a couple of years and, more important, they didn't have time to stop, observe, "catch up" with new trends. Times runs faster every day. Today, it's not wonderful to see an act becoming a superstar "in a night", and disappearing in clouds in a couple of months. "Stars of the season", "Stars of the month", etc. Anybody remembers "Macarena"?..
Will it ever return? Who knows?.. Personally, i hope so...
1. Why Invasion not Renaissance? As Brian & Mike have already stated, those young guys from UK added their own ideas, feelings, emotions, etc. It was different, dare i say much different?
2. Why it didn't last too long? My suggestion is because it was already show business. The producers wanted to make as much money as possible. The young musicians had to "work like dogs". No wonder they felt exhausted in a couple of years and, more important, they didn't have time to stop, observe, "catch up" with new trends. Times runs faster every day. Today, it's not wonderful to see an act becoming a superstar "in a night", and disappearing in clouds in a couple of months. "Stars of the season", "Stars of the month", etc. Anybody remembers "Macarena"?..
Will it ever return? Who knows?.. Personally, i hope so...
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
Another topic raised eloquently by Peter and equally some very valid responses.
For what it’s worth my take would be this;
In the US from 59 to 62 popular solo singers mainly dominated music, the UK followed that trend to some degree. Especially in US solo male stars were generally with odd exception good looking young men whose appeal really centred on their persona rather than their music.
The only group to emerge in States prior to 59 were Buddy Holly and The Crickets I believe, but groups always tended to have a guy as the vocal point somebody and etc
Groups that did emerge were mainly vocal groups, they would probably be classed as Boy Bands these days,
Groups with guitars were few and far between both in UK and US Ventures, Booker T & The MG’s, Bill Black’s Combo had hits but were not prolific.
For me here in UK the first beatgroup to emerge were The Shadows, suddenly young men, myself included, realised that guys with glasses etc could make it in the pop world provided you could play guitar.
Most groups that emerged modelled themselves on the Shadows or were a variation on Cliff Richard and The Shadows.
There has always been this theory that Liverpool became so prominent because t was a port and records were brought in from US. Chris Curtis of The Searchers in an Interview with Spencer Leigh, which is on Clough’s Links, dismissed this actually saying that he found all the songs for the searchers in the early days from record stores in Liverpool.
The Beatles early releases sounded so fresh and raw that I think they struck a cord with the young guys, though again girls as they had done with the likes of Bobby Vee, Elvis, Tommy Roe still really went for the looks and McCartney was the one that benefited in my view.
Someone once said they were not the best group in Liverpool at the time but fate gave them the head start.
The first group to actually top the US charts were The Tornados with Telstar but like so many before instrumentals had a limited appeal.
They were other cities Birmingham and Manchester springs to mind were group scene was active before The Beatles made it and had one of these bands had an Epstein then who knows.
Don’t know who coined the Invasion tag but really in essence it was really only The Beatles who made it big and encouraged homegrown talent in US to emerge, probably working on the we can do just as good theory.
Beatles did break the teen idol mould, of that there is no doubt, but really many of the other groups enjoyed limited success with odd exception Dave Clark Five, Herman’s Hermits but they were not part of Merseybeat, in fact most of the groups who rose to stardom as it were on the strength of the so called Merseybeat boom saw that chart careers over within 2 years at most.
One thing is has done however is create a great legacy, no other era in my view will still have acts who 40 years have their initial success will still be performing, the sixties created a unique breed of performer
For what it’s worth my take would be this;
In the US from 59 to 62 popular solo singers mainly dominated music, the UK followed that trend to some degree. Especially in US solo male stars were generally with odd exception good looking young men whose appeal really centred on their persona rather than their music.
The only group to emerge in States prior to 59 were Buddy Holly and The Crickets I believe, but groups always tended to have a guy as the vocal point somebody and etc
Groups that did emerge were mainly vocal groups, they would probably be classed as Boy Bands these days,
Groups with guitars were few and far between both in UK and US Ventures, Booker T & The MG’s, Bill Black’s Combo had hits but were not prolific.
For me here in UK the first beatgroup to emerge were The Shadows, suddenly young men, myself included, realised that guys with glasses etc could make it in the pop world provided you could play guitar.
Most groups that emerged modelled themselves on the Shadows or were a variation on Cliff Richard and The Shadows.
There has always been this theory that Liverpool became so prominent because t was a port and records were brought in from US. Chris Curtis of The Searchers in an Interview with Spencer Leigh, which is on Clough’s Links, dismissed this actually saying that he found all the songs for the searchers in the early days from record stores in Liverpool.
The Beatles early releases sounded so fresh and raw that I think they struck a cord with the young guys, though again girls as they had done with the likes of Bobby Vee, Elvis, Tommy Roe still really went for the looks and McCartney was the one that benefited in my view.
Someone once said they were not the best group in Liverpool at the time but fate gave them the head start.
The first group to actually top the US charts were The Tornados with Telstar but like so many before instrumentals had a limited appeal.
They were other cities Birmingham and Manchester springs to mind were group scene was active before The Beatles made it and had one of these bands had an Epstein then who knows.
Don’t know who coined the Invasion tag but really in essence it was really only The Beatles who made it big and encouraged homegrown talent in US to emerge, probably working on the we can do just as good theory.
Beatles did break the teen idol mould, of that there is no doubt, but really many of the other groups enjoyed limited success with odd exception Dave Clark Five, Herman’s Hermits but they were not part of Merseybeat, in fact most of the groups who rose to stardom as it were on the strength of the so called Merseybeat boom saw that chart careers over within 2 years at most.
One thing is has done however is create a great legacy, no other era in my view will still have acts who 40 years have their initial success will still be performing, the sixties created a unique breed of performer
TODAY'S THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE
Nice appearance can make you popular... but it won't make you last for a long time. Girls grow and forget about their teenage idols. That's just a part of the story...
...and who knows who will we refer to as "classic" in some 20 years...
...and who knows who will we refer to as "classic" in some 20 years...
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
Peter excellent topic and some very thoughtful feedback. Most interesting. Roy it is indeed a great legacy after 40 years some acts are still performing and what's more I saw 1964 The Tribute play last Thursday evening to a packed house. It was just awesome, Imagine making a living impersonating a band from that era, a remarkable phenomena and a testament to the impact the The Beatles had on America. Mike I would like to hear your take on why American music and lyrics are not as powerful or expressive. I would not be offended in any way as I find much of todays music lacking..IMHO
Perhaps not as expressive. I think it has to be linked to the way children are brought up in the US. What is most important, these days, maybe for quite a while, is toughness. That is the highest form of respect -- which leads to political debate that I'd like to stay away from.
Leprosy is rare & scarce but nobody wants that!
Just my couple of cents considering the "lyrics question"...
Mike wrote:
American lyrics are not as powerful and expressive
Not that i want to argue, but i've always thought US rock/pop music was as much about powerful lyrics as UK rock/pop: just consider Bob Dylan, Paul Simon and Jim Morrison, for example...
Mike wrote:
American lyrics are not as powerful and expressive
Not that i want to argue, but i've always thought US rock/pop music was as much about powerful lyrics as UK rock/pop: just consider Bob Dylan, Paul Simon and Jim Morrison, for example...
Nothing will get you dead quicker than being deadly serious about yourself.
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leftyguitars
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What a great thread!
I think that this type of music can't ever return for three main reasons.
1, It was of the time and those times have gone.
2, Technology has killed individual creativeness.
3, Money (for various reasons),
a, corporate businesses are only interested in money and will only back a "guaranteed instant return",
b, if you have (false) support you can make millions in a few weeks without the need for any talent or skills - in the early days you had to come up with the goods yourself.
c, in general people are so much richer now, nowadays nobody writes a blues song about how bad their car is (for example), they just go and buy another car! You have to have suffered to write songs about suffering, and the people of Liverpool (and other areas of the UK) certainly had a hard life then!
d, following on from "c" nowadays if Joe Public wants a Les Paul and a Marshall stack he goes to the nearest retailer (or picks up the phone/logs on) flashes the plastic and in no time at all he has the goods. The result is the market is flooded with "no hopers" and "wannabe's" and genuine talent has to fight it's way to the top be seen. In the '60's you had to save for months (or even years) to afford anything at all.
This is where I say "I used to live in a cardboard box in the middle of the street" and you say "You were lucky, we used to dream of a...". Err, I seem to have rambled on a bit!
I think that this type of music can't ever return for three main reasons.
1, It was of the time and those times have gone.
2, Technology has killed individual creativeness.
3, Money (for various reasons),
a, corporate businesses are only interested in money and will only back a "guaranteed instant return",
b, if you have (false) support you can make millions in a few weeks without the need for any talent or skills - in the early days you had to come up with the goods yourself.
c, in general people are so much richer now, nowadays nobody writes a blues song about how bad their car is (for example), they just go and buy another car! You have to have suffered to write songs about suffering, and the people of Liverpool (and other areas of the UK) certainly had a hard life then!
d, following on from "c" nowadays if Joe Public wants a Les Paul and a Marshall stack he goes to the nearest retailer (or picks up the phone/logs on) flashes the plastic and in no time at all he has the goods. The result is the market is flooded with "no hopers" and "wannabe's" and genuine talent has to fight it's way to the top be seen. In the '60's you had to save for months (or even years) to afford anything at all.
This is where I say "I used to live in a cardboard box in the middle of the street" and you say "You were lucky, we used to dream of a...". Err, I seem to have rambled on a bit!
"If only quilted maple grew on trees!"
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leftyguitars
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I agree with Mike on the lyrics, maybe it was because we didn't have the political censorship that the USA had (has?).
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Some excellent points being made and thanks to PeterMcC for getting us back on track.
Peter L take your points which are very observant and welcome don't recall many postings on CC but glad to have yet another Northerner here, though you are a bit further North than I.
The only point I would not agree with is the hard life bit, it really wasn't a hard life as we didn't know any different it was the norm.
You walked or got the bus to school nowadays if parents car won't start or whatever it's a day off school.
For years where I lived you were affluent if you had an inside toilet, I was lucky ours was in the backyard others had to go up the street.
Sometimes I wish we could have some of what we had then, back today, your second point about technology is spot on both musically and in life, yes we all welcome the advances but we all survived without mobile (cell) phones, ipods etc. Of course we could not have done what we are doing now though.
Peter L take your points which are very observant and welcome don't recall many postings on CC but glad to have yet another Northerner here, though you are a bit further North than I.
The only point I would not agree with is the hard life bit, it really wasn't a hard life as we didn't know any different it was the norm.
You walked or got the bus to school nowadays if parents car won't start or whatever it's a day off school.
For years where I lived you were affluent if you had an inside toilet, I was lucky ours was in the backyard others had to go up the street.
Sometimes I wish we could have some of what we had then, back today, your second point about technology is spot on both musically and in life, yes we all welcome the advances but we all survived without mobile (cell) phones, ipods etc. Of course we could not have done what we are doing now though.
TODAY'S THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE
Sheena of course I agree no one wants to argue, part of the appeal of forums like this is to express a view with like minded people, I don't expect people to always agree with me and don't mind them forcibly saying it. I do concur with you though I though American lyrics were powerful at times, Eve of Destruction a song in my view so true today.
Not sure about your teen idols bit too, do they really forget, as regulars know I am a Bobby Vee fan and on the infrequent visits to these shores I see loads of mature women who certainly have not forgot their teen idol, they may have stopped buying the records but did not forget him. Same here with Cliff Richard the vast majority of his fans today are women who screamed at him in the sixties.
Not sure about your teen idols bit too, do they really forget, as regulars know I am a Bobby Vee fan and on the infrequent visits to these shores I see loads of mature women who certainly have not forgot their teen idol, they may have stopped buying the records but did not forget him. Same here with Cliff Richard the vast majority of his fans today are women who screamed at him in the sixties.
TODAY'S THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE
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leftyguitars
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Roy, by "A hard life" I mean in the '60s I had one guitar bought on HP (a secondhand Rickenbacker bought in a second hand shop in Hull). It took me literally years to pay it off. Now I have 30-40 guitars and think nothing of it. (But that one guitar that I struggled to buy in 1969 meant more to me then than the collection that I have now). We too had an outside toilet, no car or TV and our holidays consisted of a day trip to Scarborough. Nowadays I have all home comforts, two cars, a motorbike, lcd screens and think nothing of flying to the USA for a couple of days just to pick up yet another guitar. Don't get me wrong, I have fought all my life to get where I am now, but the more that I get (material wise) the more I lose the fire that I had inside me.
BTW, I am only 60 miles from you and get to Leeds most weeks.
BTW, I am only 60 miles from you and get to Leeds most weeks.
"If only quilted maple grew on trees!"
http://www.leftyguitars.co.uk
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