Inspiration

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:50 am

After having watched Paul do a complete Refinish and Refret on an old 335 of mine, I got inspired to learn this art. I signed up to take a class on refreting guitars and just completed it. I chose another Ric 335 which I bought on Ebay about 12-16 months ago. The frets were worn almost to the wood, unplayable. This guitar also has a crack in the skunk strip on the back of neck at about the 9th fret. The crack is well worn so has been there a long time, but the neck is straight and truss rods have plenty of play in them.

I put in tall medium frets, from Dunlop. The medium width is in keeping with a vintage instrument but the tall frets gives a feel of jumbos. The tall also gave me plenty of room during the leveling. When you hammer in frets, the lowest fret will become the height of all the other frets, so you file down the rest to get to the height on the low one.

Paul, thanks for the inspiration. The next class is electronics, so we will learn how to read circuit diagrams, do some soldering and such.

And this summer will be a complete build of an electric solid body of our own design.

PS: I decided to go with the vintage black knobs, what do you think?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:11 am

I like the vintage knobs!

And congratulations on your new avocation!

(I was wondering what was keeping you busy these days. Now I know!)

melibreits · Post by **melibreits** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:13 pm

That is so cool, David.... How inspiring! I am sure your new hobby will be very rewarding indeed!

And both guitars are looking very, very nice....

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:01 am

Thanks Melissa. And it is much more rewarding than shuffling around CYA paperwork all day!

Paul, I want to start playing around with finishing. Finishing is going to be the last thing Ian teaches us on our own complete builds. And it really is the thing I am most interested in.

I have a 80’s heavy metal Strat that I was using to practice my leveling, crowning & polishing technique on. The thin layer of lacquer on the fretboard is worn off on most of the neck (maple). I would like to use it as my first spray attempt with some lacquer or it is most likely poly. The back of the neck is still coated.

I bought this spray gun set, which I believe is the exact same one Stew-Mac sells:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006S7C2/qid=1141314615/sr=1-3/ref=pd_bbs_3/102-4843983-1696126?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013

I have sanded the fret board with small pieces of 3M gold 320, than 500 (this stuff is outrageously expensive), to get the player wear removed.

What would be your approach to a job like this?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:35 am

The fretboard on that Fender, when you re-lacquer it, is going to look wavy. It is nearly impossible to get a fretboard flat without pulling the frets first, and as you probably know, on maple neck Fenders, the frets are put in from the side and should be removed the same way to avoid splintering.

The spray gun setup you've bought is fine for lacquer, but a decade out of date, because it is not HVLP. Also, it's Chinese-made, and these are not the best for good atomization and reliable consistent pattern. Taiwanese HVLP guns like ATD and Sharpe Finex FX-300 are better buys in the $100-$150 range.

The two guns in this setup (DeVilbiss sells a whole budget line--a fine old American company selling Chinese stuff!) are knockoffs of Binks guns. Binks is DeVilbiss' main US competitor.

These guns will not do a good job on polyurethane or conversion varnish. They put out too much air and overspray. But if you can't return them for a Finex, you could get them to work. My own philosophy is "adapt, but only when there is no other option". Finishing is tough enough to learn, without having to relearn it when you change equipment.

My approach would be to have Ian show you how to remove those frets and re-insert new ones (from the side, like Fender does). When you get the frets out, sand the fretboard with a long block of the proper radius and #150 grit paper, then move on to #320 and #400 or #500 paper. Then it's ready for sealer (Behling vinyl sealer or model airplane sanding sealer are both the same thing), one more sanding with #400 or #500, and a couple of coats of clear or tinted nitro. Then sand lightly, buff out on a wheel, and re-insert frets.

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:15 am

I definitely want to tool up right. I have not opened the guns yet. What guns do you personally use for different jobs?

Also, on the Fender, it was a freebie, so I do not want to refret the guitar just using it as a practice piece. There were cockroach bodies in the pickup routes, ugh. So I am just going to spay it for now.

What sealer do you like?

What lacquer do you like?

I did buy the radius block set from Stew-Mac, and I agree it is the most important step in a refret: getting the neck straight as possible and then re-radiusing the neck with the proper sanding block, is what makes a refret so great. With new guitars, their necks will wrap a bit after production and truss rod adjustment can’t get them perfect.

Is Stew-Mac selling the Binks or DeVilbiss?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Equipment:_Spray_equipment/Spray_Guns.html

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:19 am

Stew Mac is not the place for finishing hardware. I buy my sealer from them when I run out (high prices). They have a lot invested in selling lacquer to amateurs, and Erlewine is their mouthpiece, so you won't be getting any state-of-the-art technical knowledge or materials or equipment from them in this lifetime.

I like the Behlen Sealer. RIC uses thinned down conversion varnish as sealer and it bonds even better than Behlen. All sealers must be scuffed BTW.

Lacquer: I use DuPont 480S, which is not a nitro, but an acrylic clear. Good stuff and can be tinted with acrylic or urethane tinting colors.

For a good gun at a decent price, try the Sharpe Finex FX300. Perfect gun for guitar-sized jobs. The small gun in your two-gun kit is too small, the big one too big.

I recently refinned a bass with a new Sharpe Finex FX300 and the gun sprays very, very well with great atomization and control. It has a nice feel, too, which most Chinese guns lack entirely. You can find these online for $75.00-100.00. It's an HVLP, too.

I use a separate gun for metallics and pearls, another for solid colors, and a third for conversion varnish. My sealer is in a fourth gun! Each a different gun, with no possibility for cross-contamination.

Here's my gun rack:

Left to right, new Sharpe Finex FX300 (solid colors), Binks MG-1 with 3M quick change disposable cup system (clearcoat), SATA Minijet (burst shading), Binks MG-1 #2 (spare), ATD (Taiwanese)(sealer), UPOL (Taiwanese)(metallics), and ATD #2 (spare). The purple Binks guns and the green SATA are all pricey professional guns. All are five years or more old and bulletproof. The Sharpe is only a few days old, was recently engineered after deal problems, and sprays like a $400.00 gun.

Taiwanese guns are getting pretty decent and are good value for the buck. The pro guns are between $300 and $400 each, but last forever.

Here's a 3-pack of Chinese guns selling for about $120.00 on the net:

I purchased these to evaluate. They are not very good. But knowing the Chinese, give 'em about two or three years and they'll get it right. These guns feel bad (not smooth to operate, and the machining on the nozzles is bad).

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:20 am

Best of luck with it all, David. I admire you for having a go!

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:00 pm

Thanks Paul, I am going to do some shopping on the web this weekend. Getting the right tools is a big part of the job.

britye · Post by **britye** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:33 pm

Brings back memories the old suction feed guns, I used the Chinese Binks knock off which I relegated for primer surfacer the Ditzler 72 red oxide and later the Kondar high build stuff. I first used it out of the box on a refinish job on a hood ( what was I thinking?) that damn thing was cruising along fine then it proceeded to spit a glob of **** out on my fine paint job on final coat. This was acrylic enamel job and a metallic color to boot. Had to let it dry and start over. Lesson learned don't skimp on tools get quality equipment you'll save time and money and most of all you'll avoid losing your temper and throwing objects which which cause the cup to seperate from the gun resulting in a hell of a lot more work ( did I really do that?) Best to ya David have fun!!

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:08 pm

Paul, this is the air compressor I have.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004WGQM/qid=1141411372/sr=1-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4843983-1696126?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013#productDetails

Can this get the job done or do I need to upgrade?

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:24 pm

Howard, Brian, thanks for the encouragement. Todays project, a notched straight edge for a Ric fret scale.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:02 pm

David, I cover this in pretty good detail in the thread entitled "Compressor setup" in this section.

But, basically, you have a nail gun compressor. It's made to put out short bursts of air, and because a nail gun only has about a 5% duty cycle, a pancake compressor quickly runs out of wind when it's driving a spray gun. Even small touch-up guns use about 5 CFM of air. Manufacturers try to cloud the issue with consumer-grade compressors, by emphasizing PSI. Even a tiny compressor can be made to produce 100 PSI (like those you can buy to inflate your tires that plug into the cigarette lighter). But, as with cars, where it's torque that wins races, not horsepower, it's CFM that counts in compressors.

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:04 pm

Thanks Paul. Enjoy the vacation.

Here is the "compressor post" for others

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