I need a new amp, reccomendations?

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 2:35 am

There is an absolute wealth of information in this topic with regard to the tonality and technical aspects of amplifiers perferred by those who have posted. The depth of the responses made is quickly becoming encyclopedic and has provided for great reading. While the richness of sound is locked within the temporal lobes of the listener, learning about what others have discovered is fascinating and clearly more affordable than checking out these same amplifiers by oneself.

I have narrowed down my amplifier preferences over the past 40 years or so and in the end, not to discount for a moment the many excellent amplifiers in the marketplace, the sound I have preferred is based on my favourite musicians and what they have used over their careers. I have settled for the scrimping and long-term saving approach coupled by the relentless search for tube amplifiers of the Fender and Vox variety. To my way of thinking, the Fender reverb provides a richness and tonality that is toward the top of my list and I have found this in a Twin Reverb. A brilliant and golden tonality, to my ear, is found in the VOX AC-30.

This topic has certainly reinforced that there are many better buys and cost effectiveness is something we all search for. In the end, however, a used Fender Twin Reverb and a VOX AC-30 give me everything I could want each time I plug in. There are many amplifiers that perhaps out perform them and achieve a "close to sound". Through patience and networking I have managed to find both of my dream amplifiers for just under $1000US a piece. Granted it took 40 years but half the fun has been the search.

I may wake up one morning and find that there is a new modeling amplifier without any tubes that is on the shelf for $300 and kick myself for it. Perhaps an amplifier fool and his money are soon parted but I have come to this place after decades of pondering, listening and playing amplifiers in music stores and the homes of friends. I have friends who have spent the equivalent of my purchases in getting amplifiers that they didn't really want. So I am recommending used gear and purchasing Fender and Vox. I don't think you will be disappointed. In short, my advice to John Ashfield would be, if you need a new amplifier, get an old one.

profjeff · Post by **profjeff** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:49 am

Good choices, Peter. As a gigging musician, I have found that old amps sometimes don't offer the features that I need, like master volume controls, channel switching, and effects loops. These features, along with portability were major factors in my choosing an AC-15 TBX and a Hot Rod Deluxe as my main gigging and recording amps. I added the Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 201 to my collection for some serious rock tones, and last summer I purchased the little Ampeg Jet as a backup for my AC-15 which was beginning to show signs of road wear. All four of these amps have proven to be incredibly reliable, which, for me, is a high priority.

My personal choices illustrate that there are many factors involved in selecting the right amp for each of our unique circumstances, and it is ludicrous to say that a particular amp is perfect for everyone (I don't think anyone in this forum is actually doing that). Add to that the controversial nature of what constitutes great tone, and you can see why this thread has been so popular. I think that this discussion has long since moved beyond giving advice to John Ashfield (sorry, John), and has morphed into a rich discussion that exemplifies the strenghts of Internet threaded discussion groups and why the web is such a powerful source of information--although you DO have to seriously evalute the information for accuracy, personal bias, and hidden agendas. We all tend to become zealous evangelists for our choices, and while that is not necessarily a bad thing, it must be taken into account when using web-based information. Case in point: Check out some of the information posted on the Harmony Central website where users routinely rate cheap, poorly constructed guitars (Essex and Lotus guitars come to mind) as comparing favorably to top of the line Fenders, Gibsons, and our favorites--Rickenbackers. It is even more difficult to remain objective when we have just shelled out three grand for a new hand-wired AC-30 or Bogner; the same can be said for paying several thousand for a vintage Bassman or Twin. I'm gonna say that it sounds better than a $500 Fender Deluxe whether it is actually true or not! Forget about objectivity. I just spent a month's worth of my income on an amp!

profjeff · Post by **profjeff** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:27 am

Here are a coule of gems from Harmony Central that I found under the Essex guitar reviews. These people are all talking about the same Essex tele copy. Enjoy!

Sound: 9
Very close to an original Fender in tone, perhaps indistinguishable. Has that Tele twang. I'm going to install a noise shield along with a cosmetic change to a tortoise-shell pickguard to help shield out the background buzz/noise (which is no more than a standard Tele). Seeing as this guitar only costs $109, the overall sound and comparison to a Fender is astounding!

Sound: 1
Awful, no distinct sound. The kramers by gibson are even better sounding.you will need to invest some $ for decent pu. played through a fender twin - need to boost the mid and treble to get it out of the mud.

Sound: 9
This guitar sounds as good, if not better, than any other tele copies I've heard or played. I dare say even better than some of the authentic mexican made telecasters. I got it a few weeks ago and I have played it out with the boys a couple of times since then. My Peavey Delta Blues 115 is a perfect companion for this funky little guitar. The pickups hum a little bit but thats the nature of the beast. I'd give it a ten except for the bridge pickup I mentioned earlier.

Sound: 1
I don't know what the other reviewers were reviewing but this is guitar had no tone whatsoever. You have got to replace the pups ASAP. I compared the essex to a squire AFFINITY I had laying around - the affinity was a world better (and I thought the affinities were lacking).

Sound: 8
It sounds unreal. For a cheap tele, I mean. I've owned teles and strats and gibsons, etc, and this essex guitar smokes!

Sound: 1
Piece o'****. you will trash the pups.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:51 am

Good point Jeffrey. Old amplifiers do not have a number of the newer features sought after by the contemporary musician. I also agree that it is important to read each review with a healthy degree of skepticism. A score of boastful reviews may demonstrate a seemingly high level of reliability but, at the same time, may have little or no validity.

BTW, I very much like your choice of the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. A manageable amplifier with a mighty sound. It has a very nice reverb as well and, to my old ears, slightly ahead of the new Traynor YCV40 reverb.

sir_andrew_of_left_coast · Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:47 pm

I just scrolled through this entire thread and, yes Peter, it has indeed been an interesting and informative "read."

I think (...and hope) that I've acquired about all I need in the amplifier department; and I think I'm just about done guitar-wise, too. But it certainly has been a fun journey!

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:38 am

I think that Peter has some of the best advice on getting a used amp, and getting what you want. I would not necessarily get an old amp. I bought my Traynor for half of full retail by taking a slightly used demo unit from an authorized dealer that still carried the full factory warranty. $200 off his regular discount price more than made up for a slight problem I had with it, which had nothing to do with store usage. The economy stinks right now, and it's not getting better very quickly. I have watched prices fall for the past couple of years as distressed dealers MUST sell merchandise that is not moving. Ed Roman started Guitar King to move out mass market guitars and accessories that he gets from mom & pop shops that have folded and do not belong in his World Class Guitar store. Several of my recent new audio related purchases were at dealer wholesale price. I have seen several NEW Marshall AVT50 half stacks sell for $460. A good enough amp for a guy starting out playing rock/blues in clubs, and they got a full warranty from a manufacturer that will probably survive the hard times. Really old amps are probably not for people who cannot fix them or afford to have somebody else fix them. I am talking about PLAYERS, not collectors, here. The fact that somebody like Ed Roman does not want to sell amps right now tells me that there is no big money to be made in selling them right now. It's a good time to be a careful buyer of used/closeout guitar amps, if you can afford to do so. Many people can't, and that's why prices will probably go even lower for a while. Don't get in too big a hurry, and you will find great bargains.

urizen · Post by **urizen** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:10 pm

Re: Ricnvolved and boutique amp prices v. player contingencies/needs----

Good point (and point taken) regarding the prices of Top Hats (and other "boutique" amps), although in the case of that product, the street price (and used market price, although these rarely come up on the used market, which may be a sort of measurement of owner satisfaction in and of itself) may well be lower than what is showing up as their MSRP/advertised price in other regions (I live in SoCal)---I paid $825 for the VibraTrem 20 which has a single Greenback and really excellent tremelo AND "true" vibrato (---if I remember correctly that true vibrato involves some degree of pitch variation as opposed to volume pulsing, unless Leo F. got me confused w/ his eccentric fx nomenclature---) circuit. And the remarkably malleable Club Royale 2x12 was $1350. Aside from the 20 watts consideration (and it IS a loud 20 watts in both), I don't think the prices are that excessive compared to better mass-market products, and I believe both are more reliable (and definitely more service-friendly, adding to the longevity quotient---my 63 1/2 Deluxe Reverb is still going gangbusters w/ occasional service every 5-7 years since new and a replacement speaker after the third recone) than the current Korg Vox (for example) product (short of the MUCH more new/RI costly handwired PTP Vox product) or the much, much less reliable vintage originals.

Amortized over time, the additional $300-$500 or so premium over any comparable mass production amp doesn't seem all that outrageous, although I grant that, as has been pointed out, the "boutique" amps are not as (or so/overly) fx-laden, but all us geezers know that, aside from 'verb (perhaps) and trem or vibe, most of the fx are fairly extraneous.

MY rationale was that Rics are always a bargain compared to comparably constructed guitars (but, what's truly comparable to a Ric, eh?), so it balanced out my paying a bit more for an amp than I otherwise would have.
Horses for courses, I suppose.

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:43 pm

According to the guy who created the Tone Lizard website, Traynors and Garnets are fully the equal of Marshall, Vox and Fender amps of the 60's (he is an amp repairman). Reputedly, Randy Bachman would use nothing but Garnets during his Guess Who and BTO days. They are perhaps the first "boutique" amp ever produced. Yet vintage Marshall, Fender and Vox amps go for insane prices on eBay, while the old Traynor and Garnet amps go for very reasonable prices, considering they are fully the equals (or more, in build quality) of vintage Marshall, Fender and Vox amps. Just look at those nice big Hammond transformers and chokes they are loaded with! And they are off-the-shelf Hammond units, easy and economical to find replacements for, if ever needed. If I get an old vintage amp, I already know which two of those five brands I will choose from. The early Traynor YBA1 amps even had an input choke in the power supply. Shades of audiophile amps! Peter Traynor knew full well the value of an input choke on a power supply. Just try to find an amp built to that level of quality at a reasonable price today. Elvis Presley knew the value of their SOUND, and ordered several of the earlier units built, which were hurriedly built for a tour he needed them for. Ampeg knew the value of the YBA1, and developed their Rolls Royce of all bass amps, the SVT, from that Traynor design. Hence the YBA1's nickname, the Baby SVT.

I'm looking for a nice clean YBA1, the early model with the input filter choke, if anybody knows of one. It should work well with Rick basses for anybody needing a low powered tubed bass amp. I hear that guitarists wanting a "heavy sound" in a minimalist design are well pleased with the YBA1 head as well. At less than 100 watts, it should qualify as a club amp rather than a stadium amp. Shoving four Eminence B102 speakers, it should produce about 112 dB of SPL. Vintage 30 speakers would yield over 115 dB of SPL. That should be plenty for most clubs. I've seen several of those heads go for less than $400 on eBay. Some of them for lots less.

wileyibex · Post by **wileyibex** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:39 pm

Le Duck,

Shhhhh...you're going to run the ebay prices up on those things if you keep going on about them.

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:28 pm

urizen-- Enjoyed reading your follow-up post concerning Top Hat amps. You're pretty much on target in regard to the prices of those particular amps. After reading your initial post on Top Hat, it got me curious to re-investigate them since it had been about 5 years since I had actually listened to one. The websites for Fat Sound Guitars and Top Hat reminded me of the particular features; even more than that, it made me realize that perhaps these amps weren't as overpriced as I had originally thought. True, they still aren't exactly cheap. But when you take a look at some of the others (Bogner & Matchless being two examples), the Top Hats are a bit more reasonable in comparison.

The Auble and Bad Cat amps that are available at Fat Sound Guitars appear to me to be WAY overpriced. They very well may be of high quality build & materials; they may have killer tone. But are you truly getting your money's worth? I've gotta believe that the careful buyer can do just as well with another brand at quite a bit less money. (And to be fair to all, I'm taking into consideration the usual 25% to 35% discount from the stated manufacturer's retail/list price. You make a good point on that, urizen. However, I silently assumed it was understood that almost no one pays full retail for any music gear. The person who does is foolish indeed.)

Without having personally heard ANY of these amps, I'm willing to accept at this point from highly informed opinion that Cage Audio, Dr.Z, and Top Hat are 3 of the better "bargains" in high-end guitar amps. But, again, I'm fully aware that tone evaluation is highly subjective. The buyer's decision comes down to the following questions:
1)-- Does this amp produce the tone I like/want/need?
2)-- Does it have a final selling price I can afford/justify as an investment?
3)-- Am I getting the best value for my money?

In accordance to Peter McCormack's post, my all-time favorite amp tone comes from a Vox AC-30 Top Boost. But friends, I don't feel at all confident that the current Korg production version would answer question #2 & question #3 above in the affirmative. And I've heard horror stories that far too many of the classic originals are scarily unreliable. Where does that leave the guitar player who genuinely wants that golden tonality (as Peter so aptly describes it)? Locate an amp/electronics wizard, supply him with a schematic, and have him build an AC-30 Top Boost the way it SHOULD be? Oh boy, talk about expensive!! No matter what flavor of amp tone you idealize, the search is rarely easy.

grsnovi · Post by **grsnovi** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:56 am

Last night I saw a USED Victoria Twin with Jensens in it tagged at $2300

These appear to be near the top end of boutique insanity...

sir_andrew_of_left_coast · Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:15 pm

For a "used" amp? OUCH!

For that amount of money, I bought two NEW *boutique* amps: a Cage 18/30 and a Juke 112-V6.

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 3:07 pm

I glanced through this entire thread, and it seems nobody mentioned the Gibson Goldtone amp series. They have a really nice vintage look, reports on Harmony Central seem to be very favorable, and they seem to have achieved market success which means lots of used units should be popping up in the future. Which means I might could justify the cost of a used one. They have class A output stages, so I wondered how they compared to the Vox AC-15 and AC-30 models. They are definitely not cheap, but Gibson is claiming unsurpassed reliability through modern construction techniques. Being American made now, I would favor them over the Vox amps if the tone suited my tastes. I hear the build quality improved in the move from English to American production. I'm definitely going to do some more research on them, and try to hear one live some day if they look promising to me.

billikenn · Post by **billikenn** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 5:03 pm

When I recently dropped my guitar off at Lays in akron I herd dan demo a repaired strat for a customer picking it up through a new Gibson.
It sounded good enough to make me start considering them, but I cant be sure without playing it myself..

JP

philco · Post by **philco** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:55 pm

Has anybody seen the internal construction details of the latest Goldtone amps? I believe they are called Super Goldtone now. If Gibson really has built them to the current state of the art, then they could be a definite bargain for a person wanting a lifetime playing investment. I do know that Celestion Vintage 10 and Vintage 30 speakers are used. I would expect the cabinets to be made from marine grade Baltic birch plywood. I find the 4-speaker cabinet that combines 10" and 12" speakers in open back and closed back configurations very interesting. I thought about doing something similar by making a closed back cabinet with a 12" speaker that I could set my Tube 12 amp with its 8" Vintage 8 speaker on top of for more bottom end without sacrificing the nice bright and open sound of the Vintage 8.