Casters, water, and low action

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:42 am

4 questions...

Who uses casters and who doesn't and why?

Did a show last night with casters on my amp. I added them last week and what a difference they make in lugging the cab/tube amp around (130 lbs total).

I had avoided casters in the past because I heard that they killed a little low end bass response. I was doing some research, and in a Eden forum everyone was using casters because they said that a bass cab on stage can turn a hollow stage into a low end resonating box. Raising the amp slightly minimizes this and helps you keep a more consistent sound from show to show. No surprise there... our soundguy is always asking me to dial down the lows on my amp... the lows on my traynor can be HUGE.
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A bit of a rant. Let one of the other bass players at the show share my amp for their set. Anyway, their drummer decided to place his water on top of my amp... and of course he spilt it at the end of their set. no water went in the amp itself, but some water got on two of the speakers as it dripped down (I was mega effing ******). Any advice on dealing with it? I plan to let it dry a few days before playing it again.
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Finally, set the action on my 96' ric really low for the show such that when I play light I get a clean sound... but when I dig in with my fingers I get some buzzing "dirt". I really like that sound. I also set the gain of my amp to be just below overdriving... so when I dig in, the overdrive smooths out *some* of the fret dirt. anyone else do that?
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With that being said, the neck on this bass is great, but on the E side, around the 15th fret, there is a concave area if you sight down the neck. This is fine, but at very low action you can easily set off a hard buzz that is disproportional to the rest of the neck in that area plus or minus a few frets.

I have fiddled with the trussrod on the E side a bit... but is this something that can be fixed with the truss rod?... or is it a character of the neck wood that I will have to live with?

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:12 am

The 4X10 I use has removable wheels, & I always take 'em off.
I've only had problems in 2 places we've played with the hollow stage effect, & it was more a problem with the kick drum & the drummer's monitors than my amp.
Without the amp sitting on the floor I need to crank the lows too much to get a good stage sound.
I run the balanced direct out from the amp into the board, so stage sound doesn't affect the mix at all.

I found (finally) that the gain setting is crucial to get close to the Geddy sound. Find the point where it starts really overdriving & the sound guy gives you a dirty look, & dial it back just a hair. Clean when you play softly, & grits up when you come on to her.

I NEVER put drinks on my or anyone else's amps! It's just too easy to have a disaster. Also one reason I don't like lending amps. It's impossible to control other's actions, & when it's too late & the damage is done, "sorry" just doesn't cut it!

At one time a drunk spilled some beer into one of our wedge monitors & it didn't seem to affect the performance. Of course it was cleaned & had dried out thoroughly before any further use.

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:40 am

My YBA200/YBX1510 has no issues with producing low end, casters or not. No wonder my neighbors are at their wits end with me. I can see some combos of 10's needing a little low end help though.

On the amp issue, if we do shows (bar or small club shows with 2-3 local bands) most people try to share gear (basic drum kit, amps) to save hassle, time, and to make the soundguy's job easier. Before the show I was starting to grumble about letting a band I did not know use my amp (like my rics, it is my baby). And then this happens... I don't want to have to use my "even if you break it warranty" if I don't have to.

The drummer seemed like a nice guy and said sorry... but it did nothing to quell my rage.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:57 am

Raising a cab with wheels stops direct vibrations from a cheap cab into going into the floor and into hollow stages, if you have a good solid cab you shouldn't have to worry about that. You can leave a drink on top of a good solid all night with no movement because the cab is solid, good bass cabs radiate little or no energy into a stage floor no matter whether they are right on top or on wheels, all the sound goes into the air where it belongs. I don't know the new Traynors enough to comment.
Oh, I leave casters on my Ampegs at all times, makes no difference at all.

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:06 am

I don't like letting other people use my stuff. They don't have to be concerned with it's upkeep, I do. I don't want my basses abused, or my amp blown up. So, unless I really know and trust the person, the answer is always no.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:22 am

its not so much the vibrations transmitted into the floor, its the coupling effect of the surface of the floor with the standing waves of the speakers.

Ask the hi-fi guys and some of em prefer to raise the speakers above the floor just a tad.

Of course there are those who put speakers on these triangle/pyramid shaped mounts to disperse transmissions...

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:32 pm

Of note Bob... vibrations of the traynor cab did not cause the water bottle to fall... it was the drummer reaching for it and knocking it over.

philipharris · Post by **philipharris** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:10 pm

No way, never, does anyone else use my gear. It sounds mean, but a) I paid for it & b) if they are half-way pro they'll bring their own kit. Clues are there if they don't. Anyway, if my amp/axe fries them, it's me they'll claim off. So if they've got full insurance and a cert. to prove it I guess I might consider it - never happened yet, funny that....

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:44 pm

For me the bass amp is not there to produce chest thumping sub frequencies ... that is why bands have big pa systems ... for me the bass amp is there for stage volume and to produce punchy mids ... the pa fills out the sound and increases the volume ... I use a small enough cabinet that it doesn't matter if I have wheels on it or not ...

If your bass rig has too much volume and too much low end then it can make miking voice, drums, and guitar a problem ... because they all pick up the boomy bass but at a distance which is an almost reverb effect ... this goes into the subs and makes the whole band sound boomy ...

Remember it is not how it sounds where you are standing matters it is how it sounds to the audience that matters ...

and I don't like to let people use my equipment either ... many musicians a slobs with substance abuse problems ... not the kind of people /i want to let use my expensive equipment ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:44 pm

I let people use my amps, I am the house bass player at a blues jam, I find most of the time they play too softly not the other way around, I don't worry about people blowing up an SVT anyway. I don't let them play my basses however, but amps, I've never had any problems with people playing through them. My bands don't have big expansive PA's we use small stuff for the vocals only so my stage sound is very important to me. I have never found any difference in sound between casters and non-casters with a bass amp in a large room, if there is a diference it's pretty small, hifi speakers are a different story as far as I know, but I put those on the floor also. I can see exciting a large resonant open area under a stage though with a bass cab directly on the floor, that is what I understood him to be talking about. I find room acoustics and where I set up my amps have a very large bearing on the sound though. The flattest sound you are going to get is outside, that is what separates the wheat from the chaff, if your amp sounds good outside it is a good amp, because that is what your amp really sounds like.
I wasn't referring to your drummer spilling a drink from the top of your amp John when I mentioned vibrating drinks off the top, just used that as an example as a reference for my point about sloppy bass cabs. I used to do it all the time with my Fender Showman amp when I was a kid.

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:47 pm

Stage resonance or not... my gig on saturday solidified my appreciation of casters. My amp/cab weighs more than I do, so it is nice to wheel it instead of carrying it.

Bob, good point on amps outside... I will have to try that when the weather improves. Also, I have found that guitarists and kickdrums are the biggest culprits for knocking over drinks on stage. Also, singers tend to step on chords and unplug bandmates. hahahaha

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:54 am

Go wireless!!!!

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:53 am

I guess my amp's already passed the outdoor test, then. We did a party for a friend of the guitar player in his backyard & all that was run through a (downsized: 2 Peavey SP2's!) PA was the kick drum & vocals, and everything sounded great, even when I went inside the house it sounded awesome!
The others playing at the time were doing quite heavy stuff, such as Snake Pit, etc.
SWR amp & cab, BTW.

I only use the amp for stage sound & the direct out. Not too loud, just enough to match the drummer, who's not a hard hitter & VERY into dynamics. He's a very good sound man also, so we actually have 2 soundguys in the band!

jwlussow · Post by **jwlussow** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:53 am

I once had a moron blow up an old Peavey bass amp. He was Rick Saucedo's (Elvis impersonator) bass player and came in there with a very hot active bass (I do not do active) and fried the amp in his first set. That bar had live music from 9:00 PM to 5:00 AM - two bands trading 1 hour sets. I was ****** and still had to do our 4 hours without a bass amp. Since then I have solved the problem by going wireless through a Bass PODxt. It worked so well that both guitarists now go wireless through their own PODxt's. We've moved to in ear monitors so there are no guitar amps or wedge monitors on stage and the sound guy has total control without any stage volume/resonance problems. We all bought custom ear plugs so no other band could possibly use our stuff. It has helped a many times with both the sharing a stage problem and the musician/singer that wants to sit in. Most decline when they realize that they will have no monitor and will only be able to hear the drummer..... : )

shinynewtoy · Post by **shinynewtoy** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:46 am

That must be an amazing stage setup, John...

Have you noticed any difference in your performances? I'd think it'd be better with more focused monitoring...