I'm sorry that I ever raised this issue. Not as sorry, however, as I am that I have it to contend with.
Rickenbacker informed me by email today that they have banned me from their official forum.
They say that I have apparently threatened John Hall by saying 'I would like to stand next to him with the bass'. I would love to see him look at the bass and with conscience explain if he thinks the problem is acceptable on a £1000 bass. That's all. I never made any threat at all.
He's also apparently perturbed by me mentioning that if I was over there, I'd pop in to Ric and get an exchange or refinish .... that's because I'd be covered under the USA / Canada warranty. The fact that I'm NOT is something I can't argue against. I lose - ok. If I was a US resident, I'd have a pristine bass by now. I'm not, my tough luck.
That is NOT a threat, it's mentioning using their warranty - as per whatever their equivalent of the UK's Sale of goods Act is called.
I haven't threatened him or Ric with anything, except bringing my defective 9 month old bass to a trade show. Loads of people take guitars to trade shows to get advice and talk to other guitarists while they are there.
I'd like to talk to someone at Ric who actually cares about the problem, but doubt there's anyone there, who isn't too busy counting the money.
Colour bleed on Midnight Blue 4003
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
-
12stringbassist
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 579
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:44 am
- Contact:
Well, Ian, I'd say you've certainly 'put the ball in their court'...John Hall routinely reads and contributes to this forum, so perhaps you'll get a chance to clear up the misunderstanding...if not in these pages, maybe by direct communication. John doesn't seem to be an uncaring guy, whether he agrees with one's point or not, so let's see what develops...
I once borrowed a bass from the guy in the NZ band The Bats and jammed with their drummer after one of their University gigs in Dunedin, 'til some geezer threatened to call the cops if we didn't desist. I looked down and noticed some major bleeding, but it wasn't the paint job: it was me. I wiped it all off, apologizing profusely all the while and explaining that at least the US government had proclaimed my blood clean...
I once borrowed a bass from the guy in the NZ band The Bats and jammed with their drummer after one of their University gigs in Dunedin, 'til some geezer threatened to call the cops if we didn't desist. I looked down and noticed some major bleeding, but it wasn't the paint job: it was me. I wiped it all off, apologizing profusely all the while and explaining that at least the US government had proclaimed my blood clean...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
I need to interject here even though I am no longer active in this forum.
Ian, your exact quote was:
"Sadly John Hall and his boys are across the pond from me, or they would be paid a short visit and I would certainly come away with a replacement in a different colour. "
"I wish John Hall was standing here next to me and my bass, so I could make my feelings known in person to him. "
I don't believe there was any mistaking your meaning.
As far as your instrument is concerned, we've made it very clear to you privately that we would have been happy to take care of your instrument, as we are doing with other people if:
1. If it was new and legally imported into the U.K. (It isn't)
2. If it was new, the guitar was registered, and you were resident in North America (It isn't and you aren't)
You bought this from an unauthorized U.K. dealer, who bought it on eBay from someone who in turn bought it in the U.S. from an online retailer. There is no way in the world we're going to process this as a warranty issue given the complete circumvention of both the U.S. and U.K. policies and law currently in effect.
You may in fact get a chance to meet me personally in the near short term because I'm working on behalf of your government on a legal matter in the North and will likely fly directly into Manchester as I usually do. I'll keep you advised.
Ian, your exact quote was:
"Sadly John Hall and his boys are across the pond from me, or they would be paid a short visit and I would certainly come away with a replacement in a different colour. "
"I wish John Hall was standing here next to me and my bass, so I could make my feelings known in person to him. "
I don't believe there was any mistaking your meaning.
As far as your instrument is concerned, we've made it very clear to you privately that we would have been happy to take care of your instrument, as we are doing with other people if:
1. If it was new and legally imported into the U.K. (It isn't)
2. If it was new, the guitar was registered, and you were resident in North America (It isn't and you aren't)
You bought this from an unauthorized U.K. dealer, who bought it on eBay from someone who in turn bought it in the U.S. from an online retailer. There is no way in the world we're going to process this as a warranty issue given the complete circumvention of both the U.S. and U.K. policies and law currently in effect.
You may in fact get a chance to meet me personally in the near short term because I'm working on behalf of your government on a legal matter in the North and will likely fly directly into Manchester as I usually do. I'll keep you advised.
-
jwr2
If I bought a used bass and it had a finish problem then I would either live with it or refinish it ... I bought a mim jazz 5 that had a stripped nut on the truss rod ... I didn't go after Fender ... I replaced the neck ... those basses are prone to that problem so I didn't buy any more ... I have a jetglo 4003 that was damaged buy a cheap guitar hanger ... I got out the touch up paint ... I have a silver 2020 with a little exposed wood ... I got out my silver sharpie and covered the problem ...
Actually I like a bass with a cosmetic flaw or two ... then I don't have to baby it when I gig with it ...
Actually I like a bass with a cosmetic flaw or two ... then I don't have to baby it when I gig with it ...
-
12stringbassist
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 579
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:44 am
- Contact:
I have just spent 20 minutes laboriously typing a reply out and wording it carefully to reassure you that there has never been a threat - just frustration with the problem - and my cat walks over my keyboard and wipes it!
Here I go again, hopefully it will be tidier and clearer, this time...
Thank you John, for posting on here.
I have said in my correspondence to you that my warranty does not extend to here in the UK. I accept this as my lot and may grumble about it, but I would never EVER threaten anyone.
I hope that you can detect from the e-mail that I originally sent you, that I laid the facts out in an ordered, organised and polite manner. As a former Government Trade Union Side Secretary, I have always dealt with matters of dispute through structured and factual correspondence.
I hope you will agree that I laid the issue out with the fullest possible details for your comments and you responded very quickly and made your points very clearly.
To clarify two things which you DO quite correctly quote me as saying:
"Sadly John Hall and his boys are across the pond from me, or they would be paid a short visit and I would certainly come away with a replacement in a different colour. "
Yes, if I was over there, the warranty would then apply. The 'different colour' comment relates to my lack of confidence in the finish. I honestly hope that clears that one up.
"I wish John Hall was standing here next to me and my bass, so I could make my feelings known in person to him. "
This is about £1000 worth of bass, perhaps more.
I will be earning the money back to pay for it for a while, and it's frustrating to see it as it is. If you were stood next to me I would pick the thing up and hand it to you and say 'How good is that?' There is no mention and no intention of 'using it as a club' or anything!!!!!!!!
God forbid! I have kept it totally pristine / mint condition (as indeed nearly all of my basses are) and am still using it at gigs. It is by far the best player of the three 4003's I own. I am very, very attached to it. As messy as bits of it are, I'd like to keep it in one piece, thanks!!!!
If the man from Ford was next to you and you had a Ford car that started every 20 attempts, you may feel inclined to say "I wish the man from Ford was here, so I could tell him what I think of this car!" Same thing, basically.
I would really hope that you could re-read my quoted comments and discern that meaning. That - honestly - is what I intended to put across.
Again, if you would please re-visit my original e-mail to you, perhaps you would get the correct and intended tone of those comments.
I do also greatly appreciate your courtesy and the offer of a meet when you're over here. While it is a very kind offer, I do not believe that there would be that much point - you have made your position totally clear and I still accept that I am up the creek with the warranty situation.
I doubt you are going to play 'Santa Claus' and pull a pristine replacement out of your overcoat.
All I can do is say one last time that absolutely NO threat was intended whatsoever. I fully appreciate and applaud your courtesy on responding both to my initial email and to comments on here.
Here I go again, hopefully it will be tidier and clearer, this time...
Thank you John, for posting on here.
I have said in my correspondence to you that my warranty does not extend to here in the UK. I accept this as my lot and may grumble about it, but I would never EVER threaten anyone.
I hope that you can detect from the e-mail that I originally sent you, that I laid the facts out in an ordered, organised and polite manner. As a former Government Trade Union Side Secretary, I have always dealt with matters of dispute through structured and factual correspondence.
I hope you will agree that I laid the issue out with the fullest possible details for your comments and you responded very quickly and made your points very clearly.
To clarify two things which you DO quite correctly quote me as saying:
"Sadly John Hall and his boys are across the pond from me, or they would be paid a short visit and I would certainly come away with a replacement in a different colour. "
Yes, if I was over there, the warranty would then apply. The 'different colour' comment relates to my lack of confidence in the finish. I honestly hope that clears that one up.
"I wish John Hall was standing here next to me and my bass, so I could make my feelings known in person to him. "
This is about £1000 worth of bass, perhaps more.
I will be earning the money back to pay for it for a while, and it's frustrating to see it as it is. If you were stood next to me I would pick the thing up and hand it to you and say 'How good is that?' There is no mention and no intention of 'using it as a club' or anything!!!!!!!!
God forbid! I have kept it totally pristine / mint condition (as indeed nearly all of my basses are) and am still using it at gigs. It is by far the best player of the three 4003's I own. I am very, very attached to it. As messy as bits of it are, I'd like to keep it in one piece, thanks!!!!
If the man from Ford was next to you and you had a Ford car that started every 20 attempts, you may feel inclined to say "I wish the man from Ford was here, so I could tell him what I think of this car!" Same thing, basically.
I would really hope that you could re-read my quoted comments and discern that meaning. That - honestly - is what I intended to put across.
Again, if you would please re-visit my original e-mail to you, perhaps you would get the correct and intended tone of those comments.
I do also greatly appreciate your courtesy and the offer of a meet when you're over here. While it is a very kind offer, I do not believe that there would be that much point - you have made your position totally clear and I still accept that I am up the creek with the warranty situation.
I doubt you are going to play 'Santa Claus' and pull a pristine replacement out of your overcoat.
All I can do is say one last time that absolutely NO threat was intended whatsoever. I fully appreciate and applaud your courtesy on responding both to my initial email and to comments on here.
-
12stringbassist
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 579
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:44 am
- Contact:
Back again,
I am REALLY REALLY bothered by the suggestion being made that I would 'threaten' anyone.
This was my original e-mail to John Hall and to Ric Customer Services (some details and reference to another piece of related correspondence are removed). I hope that this illustrates that I have tried to deal with this correctly and properly and that it goes some way towards showing that my quoted comments have been misinterpreted.
"Hi,
My problem has been the subject of the odd recent post on the Official Ric forum and I am now writing to you directly for any advice you may be able to offer. I do apologise for any inconvenience that raising this via your corporate forum may have caused.
I bought this totally brand new Ric 4003 in midnight blue (bass is dated as November 2004) via an Ebay dealer in **** who had imported it from the USA. I got hold of the unplayed bass on July 25th 2005 (two weeks after ordering it) - the very date that I left positive feedback on his transaction on Ebay.
The dealers consistently excellent feedback is at (removed)
The bass came with full, genuine and correct documentation matching the serial number and identical-ish to other warranty and info that I had with my other two Rics. As the enclosed warranty is for North America / USA and Canada only, I did not complete it and return it.
The warranty card details are:
4003 MID
Ric SKU 40003
Serial number: ****** - which matches the jack plate, naturally.
Production date Yr 4 Mth 11
The large barcode number is ****
Small barcode = (8004) ****
My basic situation is that the bass has an imperfect / spoiled finish - as I have recently noticed that the white edge binding is becoming pronouncedly blue coloured on the neck where the bass meets with friction from either my fretting hand or where my right forearm rests upon the bass on the upper rear end of the binding when playing. The underside of the neck has really come off worst. The MID 4003 is superb - except for the finish problem, I do have to say.
There was a slight paint odour on opening the case, but a new Ric always smells of polish, etc and the bass finish felt slightly 'sticky' (I have read about this elsewhere). Having seen other 4003 MIDs, I am entirely satisfied that it is completely and absolutely genuine. The finish quality / standard throughout is not in any doubt, but its durability is certainly a problem in my instance. I would just like it to look as attractive an instrument as it should.
The suggestion has been made along the way that certain soaps used could affect the bass finish.
I do not use antibacterial soap and at gigs I wash my hands thoroughly - just in warm water - before playing. I use Cussons Imperial Leather toilet soap at home. It is not antibacterial.
I would like to know if there is any practical assistance that Rickenbacker could offer with my problem.
I have two other excellent 4003's in Fireglo and Blue Boy - from ***** in the UK - and have had absolutely no problems at all with them.
Many thanks for any advice that you may be able to offer."
I am REALLY REALLY bothered by the suggestion being made that I would 'threaten' anyone.
This was my original e-mail to John Hall and to Ric Customer Services (some details and reference to another piece of related correspondence are removed). I hope that this illustrates that I have tried to deal with this correctly and properly and that it goes some way towards showing that my quoted comments have been misinterpreted.
"Hi,
My problem has been the subject of the odd recent post on the Official Ric forum and I am now writing to you directly for any advice you may be able to offer. I do apologise for any inconvenience that raising this via your corporate forum may have caused.
I bought this totally brand new Ric 4003 in midnight blue (bass is dated as November 2004) via an Ebay dealer in **** who had imported it from the USA. I got hold of the unplayed bass on July 25th 2005 (two weeks after ordering it) - the very date that I left positive feedback on his transaction on Ebay.
The dealers consistently excellent feedback is at (removed)
The bass came with full, genuine and correct documentation matching the serial number and identical-ish to other warranty and info that I had with my other two Rics. As the enclosed warranty is for North America / USA and Canada only, I did not complete it and return it.
The warranty card details are:
4003 MID
Ric SKU 40003
Serial number: ****** - which matches the jack plate, naturally.
Production date Yr 4 Mth 11
The large barcode number is ****
Small barcode = (8004) ****
My basic situation is that the bass has an imperfect / spoiled finish - as I have recently noticed that the white edge binding is becoming pronouncedly blue coloured on the neck where the bass meets with friction from either my fretting hand or where my right forearm rests upon the bass on the upper rear end of the binding when playing. The underside of the neck has really come off worst. The MID 4003 is superb - except for the finish problem, I do have to say.
There was a slight paint odour on opening the case, but a new Ric always smells of polish, etc and the bass finish felt slightly 'sticky' (I have read about this elsewhere). Having seen other 4003 MIDs, I am entirely satisfied that it is completely and absolutely genuine. The finish quality / standard throughout is not in any doubt, but its durability is certainly a problem in my instance. I would just like it to look as attractive an instrument as it should.
The suggestion has been made along the way that certain soaps used could affect the bass finish.
I do not use antibacterial soap and at gigs I wash my hands thoroughly - just in warm water - before playing. I use Cussons Imperial Leather toilet soap at home. It is not antibacterial.
I would like to know if there is any practical assistance that Rickenbacker could offer with my problem.
I have two other excellent 4003's in Fireglo and Blue Boy - from ***** in the UK - and have had absolutely no problems at all with them.
Many thanks for any advice that you may be able to offer."
-
murtaghstyle
- New member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:03 am
. -
12stringbassist
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 579
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:44 am
- Contact:
-
bob_the_bass
- Member
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:29 am
Ian...I don't really find anything threatening in your message to Ric, but then again I don't have to wade through a mountain of e-mails every day...a mountain that undoubtedly contains some very strange stuff that must be made sense of, answered, or ignored...
If I might presume to sum things up here...writing to a manufacturer with a complaint about a product obtained through unauthorized sources is as fruitful as calling the cops to report that someone's stolen your weed...
If I might presume to sum things up here...writing to a manufacturer with a complaint about a product obtained through unauthorized sources is as fruitful as calling the cops to report that someone's stolen your weed...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
-
12stringbassist
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 579
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:44 am
- Contact:
Hi Dane,
'Unauthorised sources'... When I bought the bass on EBay as brand new unplayed (which it was), I was surprised myself to find a USA warranty tag.
If you read my email to Ric, I asked if there was any practical assistance they could offer. That could go from an offer to do something about it (which I didn't ever actually expect and I have never said I did) down to a hint or tip to clear the problem up.
You make it sound like buying a bass that was effectively 'moved stock' (I know Ric would argue with me on this, though I say it to illustrate how I see it) is something the FBI would come and knock on my door about!
I have never expected any replacement from Ric - if I had lived in the USA it would have been within warranty. Some practical advice would have been nice, though.
I'm quite glad somebody else doesn't find my remarks threatening. An insistent grumble can come across in black and white as being such, but it was NEVER ever my intention.
I am just a bit annoyed I have a Ric bass with a visibly substandard finish problem, notably prevalent among this colour, according to some other posters, that I am still paying back on.. but what the hell, I DO have two beauts and a truly excellent John Birch '4001 type' as well. My life could be a lot worse.
At this point - no matter what else is said on here - I am quite fed up of this topic now, as it's getting slightly into the realms of 'arguing about the colour of the doorknobs', and am just getting on with playing the bass and trying not to look at it too closely as I do so!
'Unauthorised sources'... When I bought the bass on EBay as brand new unplayed (which it was), I was surprised myself to find a USA warranty tag.
If you read my email to Ric, I asked if there was any practical assistance they could offer. That could go from an offer to do something about it (which I didn't ever actually expect and I have never said I did) down to a hint or tip to clear the problem up.
You make it sound like buying a bass that was effectively 'moved stock' (I know Ric would argue with me on this, though I say it to illustrate how I see it) is something the FBI would come and knock on my door about!
I have never expected any replacement from Ric - if I had lived in the USA it would have been within warranty. Some practical advice would have been nice, though.
I'm quite glad somebody else doesn't find my remarks threatening. An insistent grumble can come across in black and white as being such, but it was NEVER ever my intention.
I am just a bit annoyed I have a Ric bass with a visibly substandard finish problem, notably prevalent among this colour, according to some other posters, that I am still paying back on.. but what the hell, I DO have two beauts and a truly excellent John Birch '4001 type' as well. My life could be a lot worse.
At this point - no matter what else is said on here - I am quite fed up of this topic now, as it's getting slightly into the realms of 'arguing about the colour of the doorknobs', and am just getting on with playing the bass and trying not to look at it too closely as I do so!
Right on, dude! You've arrived! Allow me to be the first to welcome you to your long-sought destination...
And just to keep it from sounding like my mental process is suffering, what I meant was: Ric is as worried about your 'moved goods' as the cops would be worried about mine...
And just to keep it from sounding like my mental process is suffering, what I meant was: Ric is as worried about your 'moved goods' as the cops would be worried about mine...
I didn't get where I am today by being on time...
-
bob_the_bass
- Member
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:29 am
Dane ...
"If I might presume to sum things up here...writing to a manufacturer with a complaint about a product obtained through unauthorized sources is as fruitful as calling the cops to report that someone's stolen your weed"
Absolutely priceless !!!!!
Bob
"If I might presume to sum things up here...writing to a manufacturer with a complaint about a product obtained through unauthorized sources is as fruitful as calling the cops to report that someone's stolen your weed"
Absolutely priceless !!!!!
Bob
Why does it happen? Because it happens - Roll the Bones !!