Bad Rap fo Ric
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
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circles
I had the opportunity work on and setup a few forum member's Rickenbackers while working as a tech at a local shop. I was the exception to the rule that I was excited to work on Ricks when they (rarely!) walked in the door.
Something I learned was that all guitars "settle" after being setup. I don't doubt that the guitars are well setup from the factory, but they cannot be perfect out of the box, due to time, temperature and humidity changes. Final setups should be up to the dealer to deal with. I'm willing to bet Rickenbacker Intl. wouldn't hesitate to take up a beef with a dealer who wasn't taking care of their product.
I heard a quote while working there that is a good example of the Fender/Gibson world view...
"The two best days of owning a Rickenbacker 12 string are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it."
Something I learned was that all guitars "settle" after being setup. I don't doubt that the guitars are well setup from the factory, but they cannot be perfect out of the box, due to time, temperature and humidity changes. Final setups should be up to the dealer to deal with. I'm willing to bet Rickenbacker Intl. wouldn't hesitate to take up a beef with a dealer who wasn't taking care of their product.
I heard a quote while working there that is a good example of the Fender/Gibson world view...
"The two best days of owning a Rickenbacker 12 string are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it."
Just a joke! -
steve_hershberger
- Member
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- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:37 pm
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I agree with Ted. Personally, I don't think there's any factory in the world that can guarantee their final (pre-boxing) "factory spec" setup will survive the shipment trip to any given store. The only way to minimize any kind of climatic and/or jarring during shipping would be to send out every guitar via overnight shipping. And I'd bet big money that Ric (or ANY other company) doesn't do that. 
And I'm only talking about "minimizing" the possibilty of action changing or necks warping during shipping. Obviously, the longer a guitar spends in the back of a truck - through several climates - can affect it a lot. Rics might be perfect when they leave the factory, but a lot can and does happen before they reach the store. Same goes for every other brand too.
And what the store does - or doesn't do - after it arrives is a whole 'nother story. I'm of the mind that almost anything can be adjusted and it's often necessary to do *something* to ALL guitars to make them playable. Rics are no exception to that need at times too.
Thing is, lots of Ric dealers won't set them up once they're in the store. Same goes for other brands too, just so you all know I'm not picking on Rics. But, the one thing about Rics is (IMHO) they have the impression of being fragile in some respects. Also *very* touchy as to optimum trussrod adjustments. Of course, once they're set up right, they're REALLY good. Lots of dealers won't do that to their entire stock though - and lots will especially leave Rics "as-is" because they don't want (or don't know how) to adjust their "hanging stock" properly.
This stuff isn't that big of a deal to me - I do my own setups.
Stuff like that can be a bargaining point too... If you know something can be adjusted, it's easy to say something like "The action is pretty bad here, but I'll give you $x for this as-is..." Or whatever.
Heck, I've got friends who didn't buy a perfectly good guitar because it had a bit of fret sprout. One friend thought I was nuts because I bought a Gibson LP Special that had a few sprouts. I just told him "This guitar's perfect in all other ways, and a minute with a file will solve that fretsprout forever, so why NOT buy it?"
It's just little stuff like that sometimes. All I'm saying is that Rics are great guitars in all respects, but I still won't ever believe that each and every one comes out of the factory in absolutely perfect condition. That's just impossible. They come close enough though.
This is another reason I'll pay for overnight shipping too - no matter what the cost. I sure wasn't going to subject my goldtop LP Standard to ground shipping conditions in mid-February - especially coming from San Diego to Ohio. Same goes for my 360/12v64 that I had shipped from Maryland to Ohio last August when the temps here were like 95 degrees with 99% humidity. No way were those guitars going to rattle around in a truck for a week (or more) in conditions like that.
Forgetting the extra cost, it was great to order those guitars late one afternoon and e playing them before 9:00 a.m. the next morning.
And I'm only talking about "minimizing" the possibilty of action changing or necks warping during shipping. Obviously, the longer a guitar spends in the back of a truck - through several climates - can affect it a lot. Rics might be perfect when they leave the factory, but a lot can and does happen before they reach the store. Same goes for every other brand too.
And what the store does - or doesn't do - after it arrives is a whole 'nother story. I'm of the mind that almost anything can be adjusted and it's often necessary to do *something* to ALL guitars to make them playable. Rics are no exception to that need at times too.
Thing is, lots of Ric dealers won't set them up once they're in the store. Same goes for other brands too, just so you all know I'm not picking on Rics. But, the one thing about Rics is (IMHO) they have the impression of being fragile in some respects. Also *very* touchy as to optimum trussrod adjustments. Of course, once they're set up right, they're REALLY good. Lots of dealers won't do that to their entire stock though - and lots will especially leave Rics "as-is" because they don't want (or don't know how) to adjust their "hanging stock" properly.
This stuff isn't that big of a deal to me - I do my own setups.
Stuff like that can be a bargaining point too... If you know something can be adjusted, it's easy to say something like "The action is pretty bad here, but I'll give you $x for this as-is..." Or whatever.
Heck, I've got friends who didn't buy a perfectly good guitar because it had a bit of fret sprout. One friend thought I was nuts because I bought a Gibson LP Special that had a few sprouts. I just told him "This guitar's perfect in all other ways, and a minute with a file will solve that fretsprout forever, so why NOT buy it?"
It's just little stuff like that sometimes. All I'm saying is that Rics are great guitars in all respects, but I still won't ever believe that each and every one comes out of the factory in absolutely perfect condition. That's just impossible. They come close enough though.
This is another reason I'll pay for overnight shipping too - no matter what the cost. I sure wasn't going to subject my goldtop LP Standard to ground shipping conditions in mid-February - especially coming from San Diego to Ohio. Same goes for my 360/12v64 that I had shipped from Maryland to Ohio last August when the temps here were like 95 degrees with 99% humidity. No way were those guitars going to rattle around in a truck for a week (or more) in conditions like that.
Forgetting the extra cost, it was great to order those guitars late one afternoon and e playing them before 9:00 a.m. the next morning.
Daniel!!! Who ever said that must be on drugs. Just kidding. Seriously though my Ric 12 is the bees knees. I just love it. No other 12 even comes close.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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firstbassman
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 1573
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:00 am
OK, I’ll jump in.
About half the instruments I own arrived mail order in sealed boxes. So they came the way they left the factory (minus environmental and other effects of course).
When I bought my Rics locally, the salesman opened the sealed box, showed me the guitar and plopped it back in. No post-sale setup was done at all. Should he have?
How “perfect” ANY guitar is when put in its box at the factory, I don’t know. I know Ibanez includes a Tech’s checklist showing that they checked the string height and other things. But like Steve, I’m gonna do my own setup anyway, so it really doesn’t matter all that much to me.
And getting back to an earlier thread about all the guitars on display and bad customer relations. To use the local G-Center as an example. I never counted but they must have at least 400-500 guitars and basses out on display. I don’t expect every one to be in tune and in perfect shape. BUT! If a customer is interersted in an instrument and points out some flaw like was described earlier, then yes absolutely, the store staff should address the issue and not dismiss it.
PS: I have had for the most part very good luck with my local GC and have purchased several things from them. Actually I’ve had very good luck with all my sources: M123, M-Friend (owned by GC), Action Music and Wash Music Center.
About half the instruments I own arrived mail order in sealed boxes. So they came the way they left the factory (minus environmental and other effects of course).
When I bought my Rics locally, the salesman opened the sealed box, showed me the guitar and plopped it back in. No post-sale setup was done at all. Should he have?
How “perfect” ANY guitar is when put in its box at the factory, I don’t know. I know Ibanez includes a Tech’s checklist showing that they checked the string height and other things. But like Steve, I’m gonna do my own setup anyway, so it really doesn’t matter all that much to me.
And getting back to an earlier thread about all the guitars on display and bad customer relations. To use the local G-Center as an example. I never counted but they must have at least 400-500 guitars and basses out on display. I don’t expect every one to be in tune and in perfect shape. BUT! If a customer is interersted in an instrument and points out some flaw like was described earlier, then yes absolutely, the store staff should address the issue and not dismiss it.
PS: I have had for the most part very good luck with my local GC and have purchased several things from them. Actually I’ve had very good luck with all my sources: M123, M-Friend (owned by GC), Action Music and Wash Music Center.
I do my own set-ups also BTW. That's the only way to go if you have the knowledge and inclination.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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skeeterbuck
- Junior Member
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:00 am
When I played this guitar, I wasn't interested in buying it. I just wanted to try it out to get a feel for the neck and the string spacing at the nut. I am considering a 381/12v69 in AFG and before I order one and wait a year and a half for it to arrive, I want to be sure that I like the feel.
If I had actually wanted to buy the 330/12 that I tried, I'm sure that I could have bought the guitar the way it was and done my own setup on the guitar and made it play perfectly. The three Ricks that I have bought over the last several years were all bought new via the internet and all arrived in nice playing condition.
My main concern in the original post was that if somebody had just come into this store and wanted to buy an electric 12 string, eyed the Rick and thought that looks like a nice guitar, I'll try that one.
Now keep in mind
1- they may have never played a 12 string before
2- never played a Rick before ....and
3- most likely don't now that a simple adjustment to this guitar and it would have been perfect!
They would have come away thinking that this guitar was a POS!!!! Which as we all know is just not the case with Ricks.
FYI, I have corresponded with Mr. Hall via email and he informed me he will contact the dealer in question concerning this manner. So now we can rest a little easier tonight.
If I had actually wanted to buy the 330/12 that I tried, I'm sure that I could have bought the guitar the way it was and done my own setup on the guitar and made it play perfectly. The three Ricks that I have bought over the last several years were all bought new via the internet and all arrived in nice playing condition.
My main concern in the original post was that if somebody had just come into this store and wanted to buy an electric 12 string, eyed the Rick and thought that looks like a nice guitar, I'll try that one.
Now keep in mind
1- they may have never played a 12 string before
2- never played a Rick before ....and
3- most likely don't now that a simple adjustment to this guitar and it would have been perfect!
They would have come away thinking that this guitar was a POS!!!! Which as we all know is just not the case with Ricks.
FYI, I have corresponded with Mr. Hall via email and he informed me he will contact the dealer in question concerning this manner. So now we can rest a little easier tonight.
My assumption in just about any guitar shop I visit is that the majority of the guitars on the premises need to be properly set up. Most people that work in guitar stores do not know how to set up a guitar properly. This is one of life's great ironies. Rickenbackers take this to whole different level of incompetence.
When I've purchased a guitar, I've either made it clear that it needs to be properly set up with new strings, or I ask for a discount so that I can take it somewhere to get properly set up at my own expense. I've never had a problem. The only issues I've run into is that if the guitar isn't perfect when I'm playing it in the store, I'm assuming that a good set up will make it so. I've been lucky all but once.
When I purchased an acoustic this past December I was really excited about how it played. The salesman insisted that he set it up while I wait so that I could get a more honest impression of it. It took him about a half hour of work to go over the entire guitar and change the strings, clean it up, et... . I couldn't tell the difference, except for the strings of course. But that level of service is pretty rare. That store is, however, an exclusively all guitar/mando store (and a couple of amps). And free set ups for life!
Lastly, if a guitar store has visible efforts to control humidity, then it's likely a good place to buy a guitar.
When I've purchased a guitar, I've either made it clear that it needs to be properly set up with new strings, or I ask for a discount so that I can take it somewhere to get properly set up at my own expense. I've never had a problem. The only issues I've run into is that if the guitar isn't perfect when I'm playing it in the store, I'm assuming that a good set up will make it so. I've been lucky all but once.
When I purchased an acoustic this past December I was really excited about how it played. The salesman insisted that he set it up while I wait so that I could get a more honest impression of it. It took him about a half hour of work to go over the entire guitar and change the strings, clean it up, et... . I couldn't tell the difference, except for the strings of course. But that level of service is pretty rare. That store is, however, an exclusively all guitar/mando store (and a couple of amps). And free set ups for life!
Lastly, if a guitar store has visible efforts to control humidity, then it's likely a good place to buy a guitar.