Massive bass clunker

craviola990 · Post by **craviola990** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:31 pm

There is a bum bass note at the end of "Ticket To Ride", and a bum bass note in "Oh! Darling". In "Wild Horses", at one point, Mick Taylor, Bill Wyman, Keith Richards, & Charlie Watts all land at a resolve in different time! Pretty cool. Thanks! Christian

craviola990 · Post by **craviola990** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:54 pm

Thanks Steve, for straightening me out that it was Larry Knechtal on the bass on Tambourine Man. I thought it was Joe Osborne too! A very trivial bit of info; On that bass intro slide-up, between each slide up there is a low "A" connecting note that adds to the "Bouncyness" of that line. On "The Big TNT Show", Chris just rides the "D", never going to the A. Nothing huge, but thought some readers might find that interesting! Thanks, Christian

craviola990 · Post by **craviola990** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:57 pm

At the end of one of the "All I Really Want To Do's", you can hear Gene Clark (If it was Gene) set the tambourine down at the end of the song. CLANK! Thanks, Christian

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:12 pm

Isn't there some atrocious bass work on Blonde On Blonde? I've seen pics of Dylan with a Jazz bass in the studio around that time. Maybe he was having a go? Or no human could possibly follow the arrangement? I can't remember the track. I probably need to play it again then.

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:23 pm

Bob was one of those guys that liked to get it in the first take or two if he could so he could catch the energy, immediacy or inspiration...or maybe he was just taking way too many bennies & didn't have the patience to be methodical.

I don't think anybody in those days thought they were making "Great Art" that would be revered 30, 40, 50, or 100 years down the line. And with the amount of albums artists were expected to release a year back in the 60's, there wasn't a whole lot of time to belabor the point, they just ran in & slammed the tracks down as fast as they could. I think when it was revealed in the trades that "Good Vibrations" took 6 months to record people were aghast with Brian Wilson's "self-indulgence. "

bw

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:34 am

I like that aspect of the old recordings, the immediacy. That was real.
If I may add a very massive bass clunker, Bowie's The Jean Genie, when they repeat the chorus near the end, the bass player is lost for what must be a record amount of time on a released tune.

35012 · Post by **35012** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:31 am

I think that one of the biggest clunkers on any record is towards the end of Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da, where Paul accidentally sings "Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face, and in the evening she still sings with the band.: John and George really do a lot of jokey stuff on that one, so maybe they left it in in purpose.

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:46 am

Considering how many takes they did of that blessed song, I think there is excellent reason to assume Macca sang that lyrical switch on purpose. Probably came to him in a flash of inspiration, his idea of being "daring."

I must confess it's not one of my favorite songs...& apparently neither was it one of Lennon's!

bw

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:53 am

I was listening to the radio the other day and heard a major vocal clunker that I've heard many times before. It's on the Mamas And The Papas' "I Saw Her Again", where the lead singer starts and stops a verse when he realizes he's ahead of the music. It happens during total silence, so it's very obvious. I can't imagine why that take was released without editing out the mistake. It's the version you always hear on the radio.

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:10 am

Howard Kaylan makes the same mistake on the Turtles' "Battle of the Bands," he comes in too early right before the repeating chorus/outro.

Who knows why these things were left in...could be an inside joke; you know, the kind that always seems a little funnier after you've just taken a hit off a big spliff. Considering how processed, computerized, Pro-Tooled, & "perfect" (& soulless) modern music is, its kind of refreshing to hear something as human as a little flub. As long as its not too distracting or a massive clam, its kind of charming...imho.

bw

pmb1 · Post by **pmb1** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:35 pm

I was at a revival concert many years ago, when John Phillips was still alive, Denny Doherty was there with him, and when they were playing "I saw her again", Denny did in fact mention "that was a mistake" during the singing of the verse mentioned. Why the kept it in, well he didn't say. But i'd suspect it's associated with the numerous retakes and costs involved to fix flub-ups. Time is money...

stubby · Post by **stubby** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:45 pm

I remember hearing an interview with Eric Clapton about recording with Bob Dylan-he said (paraphrasing) you just watch Bob's fingers and you try to catch the chord changes because that first take could be the one. I'm a huge Bob Dylan fan but most of his albums are littered with kept mistakes-vocals/harmonies, guitars, keys, basses, the lot - as mentioned, sacrificed for the energy I suppose. Don't imagine his eyes were on the clock.

And I agree, a great post Todd.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:23 am

The "I Saw Her Again" flub I always figured to be an error that benefitted the song - as if the singer's anticipation or desire for the "her" in question is too great, he can hardly contain himself.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:11 am

I’ve been following this thread for a while.
Speaking only for myself of course, I like the “mistakes” if one can call them that. I’m all for a band being “tight” but if the bass is a little ahead of the beat … well … that’s what helps make the music swing sometimes. If it’s a real clunker, just an out-and-out dissonant note, that’s a different story.

As far as things getting knocked over (a tambourine) and falling on the floor. It kinda depends I guess. On the first Hot Tuna album, a glass falls and shatters on the floor during the middle of a song. And it’s just perfect. I can’t really explain it. Sort of helps that bluesy / speakeasy vibe.

As far as Dylan’s recording techniques, he gives a lot of examples in his Chronicles, Vol. I.

I also saw the Mamas and Papas during their “reunion” tour with Spanky McFarland and McKenzie Phillips. Huge fan.

Whether the stutter of “I Saw Her Again” was an accident…? From what I understand, John Phillips was such a perfectionist, I can’t imagine studio time or cost would factor into his decision on whether to keep it in or do it over.
I agree with Jerry. I always found that it fit the song. And it comes WAY early if I recall. Even before the strings. I’m keeping my doubts that that was really a flub.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:15 pm

Harrison commented at least once that, had they realized the longevity of what they were doing, they would have taken more time tracking (can't think of a better example than the All You Need Is Love solo, though it sorta works in a close enough for rock 'n roll kind of way.) The first band that I remember that was famous in its time for tracking take after take (at least of overdubs) to the point of near inhuman perfection was the Eagles. Per Blonde on Blonde, the guitar on One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later) is out of tune (flubs are one thing, but an out of tune instrument spans an entire track, and would ostensibly be caught by other players, engineers, and a producer, even when just getting a level, and how long would something like that take to correct?)