To clarify...Yes the 80's toaster pup was wound to 12K and from what I hear is great sounding, that's why you don't see anyone selling them.... The new toaster is wound like old one at 7.4K.....This new toaster may work out great for some players, but for me it was not much of a contrast to my 1975 treble pup...Also the new toaster is much lower in volume than my stock bridge pup...SO it wasn't working out in my bass... I just put in the new 4003 Hi-Gain neck pup and it is working out pretty good...That pup measured in at 12K... My new toaster will be rewound to 12K, of course it will change the tonal characteristics, thats what I'm looking for..
Chris
Toaster pick-up questions....
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
But like, I love the tone of the old 7.4K toasters, but I would want more output to balance out the super high output bridge pickup that I've got. The toasters back in the day were 7.4K because the bridge pickups were lower output and capped. What if I want the sound of an old toaster (i.e. a lot less growly than a neck hi-gain, deeper and smoother) but the output of a high-gain? Would rewinding a reissue toaster to 12K do this?
Johnallg,
I am refering to the reissue horseshoe pickups, on the originals, the horseshoes were the magnets.
The two RI HS pickups I have are both just a bit higher then 10 K Ohms, the one in my '73 4001 is 10.85 K Ohms, and the one in my V63 is 10.15 K Ohms.
My July '73 4001 has the Alcoa baseplate.
I am refering to the reissue horseshoe pickups, on the originals, the horseshoes were the magnets.
The two RI HS pickups I have are both just a bit higher then 10 K Ohms, the one in my '73 4001 is 10.85 K Ohms, and the one in my V63 is 10.15 K Ohms.
My July '73 4001 has the Alcoa baseplate.
Bobcat....
I am in the same dilema you just mentioned...
DOn't get me wrong, I do love the sound of a 7.4K toaster pup..but with my treble pup being soo strong, especially since I bypassed the .047 cap, I need a strong neck pup to balance out with the bridge..That is why I am having the toster re-wound to 12K... WHether or not it maintain the growl is another story I will report back on.. It is a balancing act..The more windings you use then the greater the signal output, but the winding capacitance goes up and then the resonant freq. shifts... You can use different wire coatings since they differe a bit in di-electric constant, there are winding techniques I can use to reduce the effective winding capacitance greatly, the trick is if it will fit in the winding window on the bobbin...also need to see if i can one gauge thicker and still fit the winding window, since the bigger wire tends to have better clarity...due to less copper losses, but the trick is can you "fit" the bigger wire gauge to get 12K...if so that would be better for clarity of tone... I find the Hi-Gain neck pup to be strong but lacking in tone and a bit on the dark side.. ALthough many use the DC resistance as a way of judging the pick-ups output..it really is not correct..the DC resistance is actually a loss..ie if you were to bring the temperature of a pup down in temperature eventually to "absolute zero", you would decrease the winding resistance for the same fixed number of turns and you would see the signal strength increase from the pick-up asymptotically.... Since DC resistance is small per turn..the increase in output signal per turn is greater than the DC loss per turn..so adding turns is still in your favor but not linearly..
I may ellect NOT to pot the 12K pup after the re-wind or maybe slighly pot it...since potting will increase the effective winding capacitance and that will not be good for what I am looking for... You could put in a tap in the toaster pup at the 7.4K location before continuing up to 12K, this way you have the option with a switched volume pot... The only real way of finding this stuff out is to just keep monkeying with it till you find the sweet spot...maybe a toaster re-wound to 10K,11K or somewhere between is the sweet spot...I don't know at this point..but I will report back my findings to the forum....
Chris
I am in the same dilema you just mentioned...
DOn't get me wrong, I do love the sound of a 7.4K toaster pup..but with my treble pup being soo strong, especially since I bypassed the .047 cap, I need a strong neck pup to balance out with the bridge..That is why I am having the toster re-wound to 12K... WHether or not it maintain the growl is another story I will report back on.. It is a balancing act..The more windings you use then the greater the signal output, but the winding capacitance goes up and then the resonant freq. shifts... You can use different wire coatings since they differe a bit in di-electric constant, there are winding techniques I can use to reduce the effective winding capacitance greatly, the trick is if it will fit in the winding window on the bobbin...also need to see if i can one gauge thicker and still fit the winding window, since the bigger wire tends to have better clarity...due to less copper losses, but the trick is can you "fit" the bigger wire gauge to get 12K...if so that would be better for clarity of tone... I find the Hi-Gain neck pup to be strong but lacking in tone and a bit on the dark side.. ALthough many use the DC resistance as a way of judging the pick-ups output..it really is not correct..the DC resistance is actually a loss..ie if you were to bring the temperature of a pup down in temperature eventually to "absolute zero", you would decrease the winding resistance for the same fixed number of turns and you would see the signal strength increase from the pick-up asymptotically.... Since DC resistance is small per turn..the increase in output signal per turn is greater than the DC loss per turn..so adding turns is still in your favor but not linearly..
I may ellect NOT to pot the 12K pup after the re-wind or maybe slighly pot it...since potting will increase the effective winding capacitance and that will not be good for what I am looking for... You could put in a tap in the toaster pup at the 7.4K location before continuing up to 12K, this way you have the option with a switched volume pot... The only real way of finding this stuff out is to just keep monkeying with it till you find the sweet spot...maybe a toaster re-wound to 10K,11K or somewhere between is the sweet spot...I don't know at this point..but I will report back my findings to the forum....
Chris
Cerrem and Bobcat - I solved that dilemma by unwinding the high gain bridge pup to about 7.8k. It balances with the 7.4 toaster quite will that way and the amp more than makes up for any lower gain. Tonally the change with the unwinding was very similiar to the differences I reported between the high gain and toaster neck pups.
Jps - thanks for the clarifications. Another approach to think about combined with Jared's little toy. If I may, what is your take on the tonal differences between the reissue HS and an origional HS with magnetic shoes?
Jps - thanks for the clarifications. Another approach to think about combined with Jared's little toy. If I may, what is your take on the tonal differences between the reissue HS and an origional HS with magnetic shoes?
Does anyone know if the vintage toaster neck pup is available on the 2006 4003's as an option?
'73 4001 MG '88 4003S JG '89 4003S FG '91 4003S MG
Ben yes it is but it would push out delivery to probably 2 years - WAG but with the 40+ month backlog anything not standard has long delivery times. That from what I've read on the corporate forum and stated lead time guesses on special orders.
It would be quicker to find and buy the 4003 you want and get the vintage pup from the RIC Boutique.
It would be quicker to find and buy the 4003 you want and get the vintage pup from the RIC Boutique.
I can get a 2005 4003 with that option and it is in stock but I won't be getting the push/pull. Are the necks on a 2006 any slimmer than those on a 2005? I'm caught between a rock and a hard place....should I get a 2005 with the toaster & a vintage case or get a 2006 with the push/pull and a plastic case....decisions decisions....
'73 4001 MG '88 4003S JG '89 4003S FG '91 4003S MG
Just some info for the curious....
I measured the pups from a new 4003 bass..These are Hi-Gians pups... They both measured roughly 12.75K .... My stock bridge pup from 1975 measured in at 7.25K....It has growl with lots of punch and is fairly loud ....
I used a Fluke 87 that was factory calibrated only a month a go....
This is old hat for most of you...but I am new to Rics..so I am wondering if these numbers are in the ballpark...
Best Regards
Chris
I measured the pups from a new 4003 bass..These are Hi-Gians pups... They both measured roughly 12.75K .... My stock bridge pup from 1975 measured in at 7.25K....It has growl with lots of punch and is fairly loud ....
I used a Fluke 87 that was factory calibrated only a month a go....
This is old hat for most of you...but I am new to Rics..so I am wondering if these numbers are in the ballpark...
Best Regards
Chris
