What Makes A Classic?

[admin]

We have spend considerable time talking about classics of the late 50s and 60s on Clough's Classics. Many interesting points of view have emerged that have expressed, in different ways, the manner in which a song moves the performer and the listener.

So what have we learned from this experience? My two part question is, what makes a song a classic and is there a difference in those factors that lead to a classic in North America versus the UK?

[sowhat]

Not sure about both NA and UK, and maybe i'm going off topic a bit, but there is another question: what is a classic? Some say classic is a song from 50s or 60s, some use the term "classic rock" while referring to the 70s and even 80s bands. When i was a kid, i've been taught that classic = classical music, i.e. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, etc, etc.
As far as 50s-60s songs are concerned... in my view, a song becomes a classic when covers appear, people sing it at the parties, kids play it while learning to strum their guitars - and perhaps when "general public" can identify the song easily but cannot say who wrote it and sometimes even who sang it. Just my $.02.

[admin]

Sheena: I very much like your characterization of a classic. I would have very similar comments to make.

For me a classic tune is an enduring song that is recognized as being the very best of its kind. Sometimes this would include the very best of the worst.

[royclough]

"Having lasting significance or worth; enduring"

Above is just one of the definitions of a classic and in music terms most accurate in my view. Of course a classic is also personal and to some degree subjective.

For me some songs or tunes become classics because in my view they endure, stand the test of time, or just seem to stand out.

As regards North America and UK it clearly depends on the popularity in each country,to give just one example Apache by The Shadows is considered a classic instrumental in UK it has stood the test of time copied by many yet meant nothing in North America,Apache by Jorgen Ingmann was the hit in America but would not be considered a classic there. It was not influential in music terms yet Apache by Shads was in UK and Europe to some degree even Australia not forgetting Howard.

The track inspired many budding guitarists for a time every one wanted to be Hank Marvin.

A classic is to some degree a personal thing that is why we called this Clough's Classics a statement that conveys what I may consider a classic would not be even be thought of as such by many on list and vice versa.

[admin]

I particularly like your example of Apache Roy. It is indeed a very personal experience, albeit in the case of classics shared by many. It certainly illustrates the meaning of classic.

I would add, in the case of the musical classics that were are discussing here that "a classic" has an almost instant appeal to the listener. Hence the creater of the work has an immediate connection with the listener. Classic also has an element of being at the pinnacle of its genre, at least to my way of thinking.

I would also argue that some songs endure but whether they are classics or not might be debatable. "They Are Coming To Take Me Away" is an enduring piece with a statement to make. But is it automatically a classic because it endures?

Further, classic might also have the meaning of being part of a particular era. Classic 1960s and so on.

[royclough]

Peter, I was merely relating to one definition of a classic there are many definitions that could be used, in the case you cite perhaps an informal definition could be applied, as in superior or unusual example of it's kind. I am sure we have all heard someone give an excuse for something and uttered things like the reason he/she gave was a classic.

In it's type of genre, in my view a comedy record,perhaps They're Coming To Take Me Away could be regarded as a classic, rubbish would perhaps be a more apt terminology but as I said a classic can mean different things to different people.

I have a single I consider a classic bought in 63 called "There Are Eight Million Cossack Melodies And This Is One Of Them" by Group X, a classic because of the innovative title I would suggest.

Should anyone want to hear this Clough Classic just shout.

[admin]

HELLO ROY!

[royclough]

Peter the tone of reply indicates you feel I was aggressive in my reply, not my intention at all so apologies if it came across like that.

[admin]

Quite the contrary Roy, I enjoyed your reply very much and as you asked was simply giving you a "shout", so that I could get Group X numbers.

[sowhat]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA! (i'm shouting, just shouting, nothing more...)
Mousie just gave a funny definition of classic: it's something that you consider to be out of date/too old to care about. Hmmm... kids always "know better", but i disagree anyway...
Just to illustrate this point, many of you can remember CCR's "Mardi Gras" record, which p... off many regular fans, pardon my French. And there was an unfavorable review on one of the "interactive" reviews sites, stating it's a h.o.d, and one of the commentators replied: "How can you say that?! It's a classic!".
On the other hand, what do we call a 60s classic? Are we referring to the early 60s BI or mid/late 60s psychedelia?.. Just two very distinctive "groups" of 60s classics...

[admin]

Roy: Did we do too much shouting?

[royclough]

No just that I am having to get used to a new regime at moment called work, how long it will last who knows.

This is Group X "There Are Eight Million Cossack Melodies And This Is One Of Them" at the time of it's release in 63, some music papers speculated that it could be The Tornados whose own career had faltered with the arrival of Merseybeat. It turned out not to be and though they appeared on a major TV UK show it was not a hit, one single later their recording career was over it also emerged that the track had really been recorded by session men and a group known as The Martin Jae Five had been seconded to be Group X for promotional purposes, never the less I still love this track.

http://s64.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0L0NYUB8AJAMK2Q2L679VU2XEA

[Scastles]

After reading a couple of song examples by both you, Roy, and Peter, I was wondering if, subjectively, you feel more classic songs were likely 'one hit wonders'?

[admin]

A good question Stan. I wouldn't argue that more classic songs were necessarily one hit wonders but your empirical question is one that would require research to determine. Let me know when the findings are in. It presumes of course, that we could decide what songs are classics and what are not to begin with.

In fact, I should think that songs could certainly be classics if they are representative of a unique style or time period, even if these songs were not hits at all.

Borrowing from one of an almost infinite number of tunes, perhaps Love Potion Number 9 by The Searchers is an example. I consider that this cover is a classic recording in terms of its lyric and melody and instrumentation, three guitars and drums and so on. Nonetheless, it was not a hit for the group in the UK, but a hit for them in the US a time later. What is classic in one country may not not in another. Can classic be a universal term with broad application or perhaps only a relative one, depending on the context in which it is viewed?

I suppose that we will almost always consider a song as a classic if it was a hit, but there are numerous other factors that come into play including: recording technique, special effects, vocal and instrumental arrangement, the content of the lyrics of course and its relevance to the events of the day.

I also find it interesting that there are classics of classics as in the case of the Rutles parody of The Beatles, as but one example. A classic by association if you will.

[royclough]

What makes a Classic, well down to personal taste I reckon but here is a song from the eighties about that very subject.

http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?
id=1EHHTG8H3M2H90KEL1QD1HH62Y