Using The Accelerator

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:38 pm

Paul: I have a friend who uses crazy glue routinely and uses an accelerator. One spray from his bottle and the glue dries almost immediately.

Perhaps we have discussed this before, but what is your view when it comes to accelerators for glues. Does the accelerator change the properties of the glue? Does it harm finishes in and of itself. Should we be more patient?

As a follow-up, I have noticed a range of different types of crazy glue. Regular, extra strong, gel and so on. Do you have a preference for guitar work? Should we store it in the dark, in the fridge. Neither? Both?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am practicing for Jeopardy.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:52 pm

I tried out for Jeopardy twice, Peter, and missed by ONE question each time.

It went like this: You got 60 questions. They were ALL final Jeopardy level questions, all essay, no multiple choice, and each was on a different topic. You had 60 minutes to answer all of them. Twenty were sight questions, on a TV monitor.

I only remember one of the two I missed, and it was about John dos Passos' USA Trilogy. Darn.

I digress.

Too bad they didn't ask about super glue.

I use super glue in both water-thin and gap filler. I never use gel. I always use name brand, and never in small tubes. I buy 2 ounce bottles. Easier to dispense and stays thinner longer.

This means no 7-11 or convenience store purchases. 3M, Satellite City, and Zap-A Gap are my preferred brands. I do keep mine in the fridge. In situations where the finish of the guitar is concerned or the fix is visible, I do not use accelerator of any kind. In the few cases when I do use accelerator, I do not spray it--I use a needle dispenser bottle. Many accelerators contain acetone, which will easily wreck a guitar's finish, although it won't hurt most Asian electrics or Ricks, as we're dealing with catalyzing finishes in these cases. Accelerator causes cyanoacrylate to "boil", which causes bubbles, which weakens the joint which makes air bubbles appear. If looks and strength are important, don't use it.

Lastly, micro-tips (Stew-Mac and some good hobby stores) are a life saver. If you can find 'em, buy 'em and use 'em. They keep the flow controllable.

Ask me about baking soda sometime...

britye · Post by **britye** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:06 pm

The glue that I used in the repairing bumper covers and other plastics used an accelerator and sure enough the repaired seam bubbled and turned white when I sprayed the catalyst on it.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:14 am

There also seems to be a correlation between the freshness of the glue and accelerator and the relative humidity of the environment at the time you use both.

When the accelerator is stale, it is more likely to foam the glue. It seems to be hygroscopic (it absorbs moisture from the air). It is also light-sensitive (why else would they package it in a brown bottle?)

The accelerator starts out water-clear. As it turns stale and absorbs moisture, it ambers. Once it has the yellow color, it's much more likely to cause the glue to foam. By this time it destroys the integrity of the glue joint and I'd suggest not using it or at the least popping for a fresh bottle!

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:19 am

I learn from each of your posts Paul, thanks. Also, speaking of "foam", is this where your comments on baking soda might come in. Might it cake up in the nut slots if you are not careful?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:38 am

Actually, Peter, the foaming and baking soda are not related. I'll address baking soda in a separate post a bit later.

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:33 pm

Foaming is a process called "chlorosis," and it is a participate of the cured cyanoacrylate resin. It usually happens (in my experience) when the glue is set too quickly; you experience it more with the thin, quick-setting formulas when accelerated. Gap-filling SG doesn't seem to foam as much. Usually, the foam is on top of the glue and can be sanded off. Kinda like meringue on a lemon pie. Also, when super glue "kicks," it gives off what looks like smoke. The fumes tend to settle on oily surfaces (in my business, usually fingerprints on clear-plastic model airplane canopies -- aaarrggh!). So that's why you see the CSI types raising latent fingerprints by "cooking" super glue in a closed container along with the fingerprinted item. The frosty participate settles on the print, making it more visible for analysis. Mr. Wizard out!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:58 pm

I tell my teachers to discourage their students from using superglue to assemble their product and car models. In fact, students are docked a letter grade for any obvious super glue fogging on a finished model surface. Instead, students are shown how to properly mix and apply Devcon 5-Minute Epoxy. to attach their parts to each other. It's a matter of shoddy vs. good craftsmanship.

It is possible to make an acceptable joint using super glue, but most folks tend to see it as a panacea instead of using it sparingly and in its proper place.

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:18 am

Participate? It was late last night. I meant precipitate. Sheesh.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:36 am

I was going to participate in correcting you, but I didn't wish to precipitate any ill will.

Besides, it was late and I was tired...

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:33 am

...and it was pre... er, raining.

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Sat May 06, 2006 5:24 am

I guess now I know exactly why Loctite 380 (Black Max)tends to turn white if you are not careful when using accelerator.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat May 06, 2006 5:55 am

Don't use any accelerator at all with black superglues.

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:39 pm

Paul, where were you when I needed that advice several years ago!?!? LOL
Actually the last few times I used it, I didn't have any accelerator, it didn't turn white and the bond was better.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:44 pm

"Actually the last few times I used it, I didn't have any accelerator, it didn't turn white and the bond was better."

I see this similiar to adding chemicals to concrete to help it cure in the cold....