Hello everyone.
Seing as I cant find a Ampeg Forum(please let me now of any, I'll really apreciate it:o)) I thought I'd ask here seing as many Ric players prefer Ampeg over anything else.
My question is this, I've always played a 2x10 and 1x15 configuration but up untill now My 4003 has been going through a cheap solid state rig. I now have enough funds to buy a 1x15 and 2x10 SVT classic cabs but only enough to get the V4-BH head with them. Will the 100watts that this head provides be enough?? We usually play largish pubs or small clubs and the band is; Drummer, two guitarists, one using a 12-sting 360 Ric through either a AC30 Vox or 50watt Marshall JMP valve combo and the other using a Strat through a Hot-Rod Deville Fender. Is a Hundred Valve watts louder than a Hundred Transistor watts??
Your wisdom on this subject will be greatly apreciated.
Thanks.
Steve
Ampeg 100watt V4-BH query.
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Ampeg 100watt V4-BH query.
Stupidity has a certain Charm, Ignorance doesn't.
Usually valve amps will seem louder then solid state. So, 100 watt valve will be a lot louder than it's transistor cousin. Obviously more watts will always give you more headroom.
The V4-BH coupled with your Rick, will be f**king loud. And the tone will be luscious!
The V4-BH coupled with your Rick, will be f**king loud. And the tone will be luscious!
What d'ya mean... the bass is TOO loud!
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soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
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- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
100 tube watts is louder than 100 solid state watts to your ear but not on paper. The reason is the compression effect that the tubes generate as they are overdriven. The tubes begin to introduce second harmonic distortion into the sound which reinforces the fundamental note and makes it sound louder. By comparison, solid state stuff gives out mostly 3rd harmonic distortion which masks the fundamental note and makes things sound quieter. 3rd harmonic distortion also sounds harsh to your ears whereas 2nd harmonic distortion sounds nicer to your ears.
Transistors go from clean to distortion in a very abrupt manner, so as a result, transistor amps are designed to get distortion from diode bounding circuits and other methods and are set up so the transistors themselves are never overdriven. A tube amp gets its overdrive and distortion tones from the tubes themselves being overdriven, and there is a range from clean to full out distortion which is know as overdrive where the tube is producing most of those 2nd harmonics that sound so nice and make it louder.
The sound will be different also in that the tube amp can't control the speakers movement as well as the solid state amp can.(this is referred to as the damping factor). So the solid state amp will have tighter and more responsive low frequencies, while the tube amp will have a much more alive and interesting mid range and high frequency content. Some tube amps like an Ampeg SVT get very good low frequency response, which is partly due to the design of the speaker cabinet and also the huge amounts of power the amp has available.
With your setup, you should be able to keep up with the guitarists as long as they don't turn all the way up all the time. The other thing I would suggest would be to seperate your speaker cabinets on stage. Have one on each side of the drummer. This will give you a little better sound dispersion. You can also mic or line out through the PA and get a good monitor sound that way. The need for a huge amount of power goes away when you use a good PA. Just have enough amp on stage to get good stage sound right around where you are standing on stage, and then run the rest of the volume requirements through the PA to get good sound to everyone else and to the crowd. Hopefully you have a good PA or play at venues with a good PA?
I have a vintage Sunn 2000S 120 watt tube amp, but don't have the original ported and loaded cabinet with two efficient JBL's in it, and I use a ported and loaded single 15 cabinet with a less efficient speaker in it. With this amp, I cannot keep up volume-wise when my AC30 is half way up unless I don't mind having distorted bass tones. With a better cabinet I wouldn't have this problem. Hope this info helps you make a decision?
Transistors go from clean to distortion in a very abrupt manner, so as a result, transistor amps are designed to get distortion from diode bounding circuits and other methods and are set up so the transistors themselves are never overdriven. A tube amp gets its overdrive and distortion tones from the tubes themselves being overdriven, and there is a range from clean to full out distortion which is know as overdrive where the tube is producing most of those 2nd harmonics that sound so nice and make it louder.
The sound will be different also in that the tube amp can't control the speakers movement as well as the solid state amp can.(this is referred to as the damping factor). So the solid state amp will have tighter and more responsive low frequencies, while the tube amp will have a much more alive and interesting mid range and high frequency content. Some tube amps like an Ampeg SVT get very good low frequency response, which is partly due to the design of the speaker cabinet and also the huge amounts of power the amp has available.
With your setup, you should be able to keep up with the guitarists as long as they don't turn all the way up all the time. The other thing I would suggest would be to seperate your speaker cabinets on stage. Have one on each side of the drummer. This will give you a little better sound dispersion. You can also mic or line out through the PA and get a good monitor sound that way. The need for a huge amount of power goes away when you use a good PA. Just have enough amp on stage to get good stage sound right around where you are standing on stage, and then run the rest of the volume requirements through the PA to get good sound to everyone else and to the crowd. Hopefully you have a good PA or play at venues with a good PA?
I have a vintage Sunn 2000S 120 watt tube amp, but don't have the original ported and loaded cabinet with two efficient JBL's in it, and I use a ported and loaded single 15 cabinet with a less efficient speaker in it. With this amp, I cannot keep up volume-wise when my AC30 is half way up unless I don't mind having distorted bass tones. With a better cabinet I wouldn't have this problem. Hope this info helps you make a decision?
And The Beatles coudn't hear a note they played, I've played with someone who opened for them on that tour. I've had trouble in the past keeping up with 50 watt marshalls using double SVT's with very loud drummers, 100 watts isn't enough for a bass SS or tube in a rock band. It would be ok for a quiet lounge type band, but a rock band? No way, I've been an Ampeg player for more than thirty years and have owned the original V4-B's which were louder than the new ones and they were ok for small rooms and quiet bands only, get an SVT, you'll never regret it.
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soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
I play weekly at a local blues jam and the bass player there uses an Ampeg B100R, and it sounds great and has enough power. I've played my 60w Sunn 200S down there and borrowed an original 2x15 ported cabinet from a friend and it is fine down there too, but only just, as long as you want to play without distortion. If I had my 2000S down there with two of the Sunn 2x15 JBL equipped cabinets, it would have more than enough power I'm sure. But if it was up to me, I'd rather take an Ampeg B100R down there than two 2x15 cabinets and a very heavy tube amp head. If I was going to have to rely on one amp to do it all, then an SVT would be what I would pick though. But it is nice to have several amps and cabinets to suit different power and volume levels.
I've used 30 watt B-15's in blues bands, wasn't loud but could hear myself, but playing with loud drummers and guitar players you really need all the extra power you can get. A V4-B might be fine for most of the night but when you need a little extra it won't be there. An SVT will sound fine just about anywhere in any situation, the only problem is the weight and the size of the cabs, that doesn't bother me, when I set it up I'm always glad I've brought it.
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soundmasterg
- RRF Consultant
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:06 pm
The owner of the club I go to would definitly stick an evil eye on you if you brought an SVT to the jam Bob! The B100R that the guy uses there is perfectly adequate and sounds great. I've brought a friend's Sunn 2x15 cabinet with JBL's, and used my 60 watt 200S and it sounded better and was the perfect volume, but its a lot easier to bring a little solid state Ampeg down there. The bass only has to compete with a couple Deluxe Reverbs on 7 so its not like you would need a ton of power to keep up.
I've gotten the evil eye many times, but I don't care haha! I actually don't like to play loud anymore anyway I play to the room and band, I just love the sound I get from them. Some people still have preconceived notions of SVT's as Marshall killers from the old days just like some think all Rics are clank machines.
I don't usually use the 8 x 10's with blues bands unless they are loud bands or it is a big room, the cabs are much more intimidating than the heads are, in fact most non-bassplayers don't know the difference between Ampeg models I've found. I'll use a head with one 4 ohm 15 occasionally in fact.
I don't usually use the 8 x 10's with blues bands unless they are loud bands or it is a big room, the cabs are much more intimidating than the heads are, in fact most non-bassplayers don't know the difference between Ampeg models I've found. I'll use a head with one 4 ohm 15 occasionally in fact.