Modding my 325V63...

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:08 am

Paul: This brings us back to a question I've asked before. Why does RIC put serial numbers on an easily removable part? Most guitar builders stamp serial numbers into the wood. As a guy who respects tradition and wouldn't want to see them change a thing, I have to wonder why they ever did it this way.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:33 am

And, as you might recall, Rick at one time did stamp the numbers into the wood. A long, long time ago. I do recall seeing it, although on which guitar and model I cannot recall. Maybe I should keep a notebook...

I think that numbers were stamped into jackplates out of expediency; metal-stamping dies at the time (mid-'50s) were a tool-and-die shop thing. Fender ( closely allied with Rick for awhile back then) were putting them on neck plates--another easily-removable item. Gibbie were smart from the get-go, stamping them into the wood, although their serial numbers are a jumble in terms of tracking anyway. Gretsch typed them onto labels (Now, THERE's permanence!) and now rubber stamps them under the varnish coats. Fender Japan. Indonesia and Mexico decals them under the varnish.

The long and the short: Serial numbers, if anything, have never been difficult to counterfeit to a halfway knowledgeable counterfeiter, and it gets easier every day.

There is absolutely NO way to stop a dedicated counterfeiter of electric guitars. No way. If he knows what he's doing from a tech standpoint, and picks his subject matter with great care, no one will ever know.

patrickkelly · Post by **patrickkelly** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:45 am

You guys must be joking! Who on Earth would think this jackplate was anything other than a Lennon replica?

Were you guys class monitors, too?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:18 am

I wanna say that the guitar I have seen with numbers stamped into the wood was a Combo of some sort, but I can't say for sure. Maybe even further back on a lapsteel model....

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:34 am

Patrick: Paul's point is a valid one.

For those who are knowledgeable about Lennon's guitars, the jackplate is likely to be identified as a replica. But there is an issue here, of course, that goes well beyond The Beatles' Rickenbackers.

Instruments could be passed off to the general public as the genuine Rickenbacker article with jackplates that appear to be authentic.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:38 am

Patrick, try to look at it a bit more globally. If RIC themselves look at it as a proprietary item, then for us to ignore this possibility in our use of these items would be to do them a disservice.

I was not a "class monitor", although I did do a stint as choir boy (got me into music), altar boy, and crossing guard, FYI.

I suppose, Patrick you think that everybody on this planet knows the serial number of Lennon's second (or was it third?) Rick?

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:52 am

Patrick: If someone called me a 'Beatle dweeb', it wouldn't be the first time this week (ha ha), but even I cannot tell you Lennon's serial numbers off the top of my head. I may have spent some time as a crossing guard, but I've got a subversive side too. If I knew where to buy some blank jackplates, I order a few for future projects/restorations. I was only attempting to point out the legal implications of selling these parts.

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:57 am

Thanks for the info, Randy. I need to Loctite my bridge screws for a different reason, anyway.

grinch · Post by **grinch** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:18 pm

It's just a replica item. No harm intended.

It is a rather generic piece. Although it is a genuine Rickenbacker jackplate, I don't see how RIC can have a copyright on a piece of sheet metal with numbers stamped into it. It's not like the truss rod, which has a signature shape and logo on it.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:17 pm

My point seems to be missed, as it sometimes is in matters such as this, despite the italics in my last post.

I said nothing about any copyright. I did, however, mention the common sense situation of this feature being a somewhat sensitive item with RIC, and therefore the distribution, by whatever means, of the item should probably be cleared with RIC as a courtesy (italics for emphasis repeated).

It seems that many of the people who are out there, tying their fortunes to those of RIC's, are there largely thanks to work done by RIC in the course of its own due diligence, and which work has been protected where it was feasible and however it was feasible.

But, just because something can be replicated, does it mean it should be without even so much as a "by your leave" from those who originally expended the effort to create it?

That's where the gentlemens' courtesy comes in.

grinch · Post by **grinch** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:56 pm

The jackplate was given as a gift to me by Jeff Levenson, so no money was involved. Nothing is being sold, here.

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Sat May 06, 2006 6:32 am

I think when Paul said "More globally" I believe one thing no one as taken away from this is the fact that it doesn't have to be Lennon's serial number, it could be any serial number. How many of us email ebay auctions asking for serial numbers? You could easily look up a serial number, find out what year it was manufactured and then slap it on a Ibanez 4001 copy and call it a 73 4001. You guys may catch it, but not all of us would. It could hurt a few innocent RIC buyers.

Now having said all that, I don't think anyone would believe that Nick or whomever actually owned John Lennon's guitar. It would be obvious to even the most novice person that a claim like that should be investigated.

gregga41 · Post by **gregga41** » Sun May 07, 2006 1:48 am

Nick, congrats on a great looking guitar. I have always loved lennons JG325! Unfortunately i can't adapt to the small scale, having to sell my BG320. But, BOY oH BOY, when i get my hands on a JG350, it'll definitely have the same mods as yours is being treated to!... I don't think anyone is implying fraud here, regarding your jackplate,...but their point is that(as seen on the 'bay),too many "shonks" out for quick profit, will catch out many novices who dont know what to look for!
Enjoy your 325 mate and every bit of the "Lennon-ization"!It's a Gem!

jonpaul · Post by **jonpaul** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:38 pm

Nick, where did you purchase the items you used for your mods. Yours looks so good, I'm thinking of giving it a go as well. Thanks!

grinch · Post by **grinch** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:05 pm

I got them from Jeff Levenson!

By the way, I made a website for all my progress. It has many more photos, including a picture of the jackplate close-up.

http://www.nickmartellaro.info/ric.html

My next major step is the vintage bridge. If only RIC sold them!!