What kind of 4004 is this?
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
-
markbass99
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 1267
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:23 am
Okay- maybe 4004's sound warm and plummy with humbuckers in them, but I just did an inaugural sound check of the 4004 that belonged to Scott/Pappas and this things got tons of bite with the toasters in it. Yikes the G string screams on this thing, and the other strings growl and bark if you tweak the VVT controls just right. This thing is all rick all the time, no doubt about it, sounds very close to my uncapped '73 4001 with just a hint of warmth from the walnut. It weighs the same as the '73 (8lbs), and the flame in the maple is gorgeous, much better live than in pictures. This thing is beauty and the beast.
73 Feb 4001, 73 March 4001, 73 April 4001, 73 May 4001, 73 June 4001, 73 July 4001
04 MM Bongo 5HSp, 07 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5Hp, 11 MM Bongo 5H
04 MM Bongo 5HSp, 07 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5Hp, 11 MM Bongo 5H
Mark, I'm not trying to start a flame war here. 
But just how long/how many gigs did you have that Cii for?
Seems like you gave up on it fast...again, I understand the term "YMMV". You may be seriously in love with the "Rick" sound and can't compromise with anything else (I don't think so, you like P basses too)...you may have had a bad instrument (they do happen, even for RIC)...you may actually not like the general sound/vibe of the 4004. If it's the last, it's OK, I understand that...
For me, the 4004 is more comfortable to play, and more reliable than my 4001. Actually, I see the place for both...with flats my 4001 ROCKS, the same RW strings that sound good on my 4004 make my 4001 sound unbearable bright and fell "odd"...played with a pick, the 4004L has as much bite as an old Yes Squire bass tone, but with way more balls.
Actually, that may be the "trick" to making this Laredo do all the tricks - learn to be better with a pick. I have really liked the tone I get on the Laredo with a pick, not being able to use my right index fingertip the last week...maybe it's a realization that a great part of Chris Squire's tone was the fact that he used a pick...
Just my $0.02, after using/gigging with my 4004L for over a year (about 20 gigs and about equal number of rehearsals)...
But just how long/how many gigs did you have that Cii for? Seems like you gave up on it fast...again, I understand the term "YMMV". You may be seriously in love with the "Rick" sound and can't compromise with anything else (I don't think so, you like P basses too)...you may have had a bad instrument (they do happen, even for RIC)...you may actually not like the general sound/vibe of the 4004. If it's the last, it's OK, I understand that...
For me, the 4004 is more comfortable to play, and more reliable than my 4001. Actually, I see the place for both...with flats my 4001 ROCKS, the same RW strings that sound good on my 4004 make my 4001 sound unbearable bright and fell "odd"...played with a pick, the 4004L has as much bite as an old Yes Squire bass tone, but with way more balls.
Actually, that may be the "trick" to making this Laredo do all the tricks - learn to be better with a pick. I have really liked the tone I get on the Laredo with a pick, not being able to use my right index fingertip the last week...maybe it's a realization that a great part of Chris Squire's tone was the fact that he used a pick...
Just my $0.02, after using/gigging with my 4004L for over a year (about 20 gigs and about equal number of rehearsals)...
Above e-mail is inactive. try ed_ardzinski@**** where **** is Hotmail.com or Yahoo.com. I tend to see things inthe hotmail box quicker...
-
markbass99
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 1267
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:23 am
In all fairness to Henny, you can't go to a store and buy the bass I just got, it has to be carefully created by someone who knows what he's doing. I think if a single coil option had been available on the 4004's they would have been huge, maybe? The neck is slightly wider than a 4001/3 but if feels like its almost as thin, front to back, as my '73 4001, very different yet very playable.
73 Feb 4001, 73 March 4001, 73 April 4001, 73 May 4001, 73 June 4001, 73 July 4001
04 MM Bongo 5HSp, 07 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5Hp, 11 MM Bongo 5H
04 MM Bongo 5HSp, 07 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5HS, 09 MM Bongo 5Hp, 11 MM Bongo 5H
"Okay- maybe 4004's sound warm and plummy with humbuckers in them, but I just did an inaugural sound check of the 4004 that belonged to Scott/Pappas and this things got tons of bite with the toasters in it. Yikes the G string screams on this thing, and the other strings growl and bark if you tweak the VVT controls just right. This thing is all rick all the time, no doubt about it, sounds very close to my uncapped '73 4001 with just a hint of warmth from the walnut. It weighs the same as the '73 (8lbs), and the flame in the maple is gorgeous, much better live than in pictures. This thing is beauty and the beast."
I keep tellin' y'all, TOASTERS are the secret to 4004 tone!
Glad you like the bass, Mark G.!
Do I hear an echo?
I keep tellin' y'all, TOASTERS are the secret to 4004 tone!
Glad you like the bass, Mark G.!
Do I hear an echo?
-
incubus2432
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4174
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:26 am
Just as some are displeased with the sound of their 4004 so was I with my 4001/4003's. My rig sounds like **** with a 4003 (thin, lifeless and all treble) but with my 4004 it screams (tons of lowend with just the right amount of treble to cut through the mix). Also, I'll take the HB-1 humbuckers over single coils any day. There are enough varied Ric supplies to make us all happy.
Mark.....I played the bass you now own and I do it agree that it is fantastic but if you want to make it's twin all you need is a pair of toasters and the VVT mod and you are good to go. Nothing complicated about it. (I don't mean this as a negative....it's just a few simple mods done with quality parts)
Mark.....I played the bass you now own and I do it agree that it is fantastic but if you want to make it's twin all you need is a pair of toasters and the VVT mod and you are good to go. Nothing complicated about it. (I don't mean this as a negative....it's just a few simple mods done with quality parts)
Brian:
Does your 4004Ci have the VVT mod? Is it an easy mod to do?
I've been messing around with my 4004Ci and I'm thinking about the mod.
The feel is GREAT. I was surprised with that because the neck is WIDE but not what I'd consider FAT. To me, it feels SO LIGHT!
My only gripe with the bass is the low end. When I play, for example, a G, F, open E, in quick succession, the bass "muddy's up". The notes just aren't clear.
It doesn't have the volume of my 4003, but it has a nice voice of its own.
I too agree, much better when played with a pick vs fingers.
Anyone know if the VVT mod would help clear that up?
Does your 4004Ci have the VVT mod? Is it an easy mod to do?
I've been messing around with my 4004Ci and I'm thinking about the mod.
The feel is GREAT. I was surprised with that because the neck is WIDE but not what I'd consider FAT. To me, it feels SO LIGHT!
My only gripe with the bass is the low end. When I play, for example, a G, F, open E, in quick succession, the bass "muddy's up". The notes just aren't clear.
It doesn't have the volume of my 4003, but it has a nice voice of its own.
I too agree, much better when played with a pick vs fingers.
Anyone know if the VVT mod would help clear that up?
"Freedom of expression is important, but I have learned that people want to know how much you care before they care how much you know."
The only time a bass player gets noticed is when he stops playing.
The only time a bass player gets noticed is when he stops playing.
-
incubus2432
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4174
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:26 am
No, I don't have the VVT.....I don't want to drill out the mini-toggle hole (I'm a sucker for reversible mods). I'd go with dual stacked pots for volume/tone control for each p/u. Scott has done the dual concentric pot mod and could probably provide more details.
I'm happy with my tone with both controls cranked. The VVT mod allows you to roll off the neck p/u volume which would probably clear up your tone somewhat.
Also I would try raising the p/u's as close to the strings as you can get away with....this really seemed to bring out a more well rounded tone and it could help with your volume issue as well. You could also lower the neck p/u and raise the bridge to balance the tone more to your liking.
Hopefully you can get a tone you like out of it. If all else fails you could swap the humbuckers for toasters for a more traditional Ric crisp/treble bite.
I'm happy with my tone with both controls cranked. The VVT mod allows you to roll off the neck p/u volume which would probably clear up your tone somewhat.
Also I would try raising the p/u's as close to the strings as you can get away with....this really seemed to bring out a more well rounded tone and it could help with your volume issue as well. You could also lower the neck p/u and raise the bridge to balance the tone more to your liking.
Hopefully you can get a tone you like out of it. If all else fails you could swap the humbuckers for toasters for a more traditional Ric crisp/treble bite.
I'm with you on the "reversible mods". I don't like mods in general, but if I were to do something, it would have to be reversible. SO I guess the VVT option is out.
The "dual stacked pots" sounds COOL! That would be more up my alley. Thanks! SCOTT???? YOU OUT THERE????
The reason I picked up the Ci is because of the pickups. The high gains and toasters make so much noise, I just can't use them! I play directly through the PA and the CI is DEAD QUITE, so I have to stay with them.
Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't even think of raising the pickups (smacks self on forehead)!
I'm off to make some adjustments! I'll let you know how it turns out.
The "dual stacked pots" sounds COOL! That would be more up my alley. Thanks! SCOTT???? YOU OUT THERE????
The reason I picked up the Ci is because of the pickups. The high gains and toasters make so much noise, I just can't use them! I play directly through the PA and the CI is DEAD QUITE, so I have to stay with them.
Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't even think of raising the pickups (smacks self on forehead)!
I'm off to make some adjustments! I'll let you know how it turns out.
"Freedom of expression is important, but I have learned that people want to know how much you care before they care how much you know."
The only time a bass player gets noticed is when he stops playing.
The only time a bass player gets noticed is when he stops playing.
I have the concentric pots in mine. Got them here,
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Potentiometers_and_push-pull_pots/5/Potentiometers_and_Push-Pull_Pots.html
A little pricy, but very high quality and compact. I unsoldered the original harness, and soldered in the new pots. No permanant mods, completely reversable. Alot more tonal versatility. Im at work right now, I'll post a pic tonight.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Potentiometers_and_push-pull_pots/5/Potentiometers_and_Push-Pull_Pots.html
A little pricy, but very high quality and compact. I unsoldered the original harness, and soldered in the new pots. No permanant mods, completely reversable. Alot more tonal versatility. Im at work right now, I'll post a pic tonight.
"Knowledge is Power"
-
incubus2432
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4174
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:26 am
I'd appreciate the information Brian!
Thanks Scott, I guess there wasn't enough of a demand. They look nice and small! Did you have to route out the cavity or did they just fit right in?
Thanks Scott, I guess there wasn't enough of a demand. They look nice and small! Did you have to route out the cavity or did they just fit right in?
"Freedom of expression is important, but I have learned that people want to know how much you care before they care how much you know."
The only time a bass player gets noticed is when he stops playing.
The only time a bass player gets noticed is when he stops playing.
-
incubus2432
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4174
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:26 am
EP 4586-000 for the pots ($13.50 each)
MK_0137-002 for gold knobs ($13.50 for each pot)
Link to the site.... http://www.universaljems.com/shop.htm
They are cheaper than StewMac but just barely.....I thought it was a bigger difference.
I have never used the site but will be ordering pots/knobs for 4 4004's in the next week or so. I'm also not sure about any clearance issues with this particular arrangement but I don't think it should be an issue. I remember Scott saying the set he got fit with no problem.
BTW....I "think" these are the right ones for the job. I'm sure if they are not someone will point out my error.
MK_0137-002 for gold knobs ($13.50 for each pot)
Link to the site.... http://www.universaljems.com/shop.htm
They are cheaper than StewMac but just barely.....I thought it was a bigger difference.
I have never used the site but will be ordering pots/knobs for 4 4004's in the next week or so. I'm also not sure about any clearance issues with this particular arrangement but I don't think it should be an issue. I remember Scott saying the set he got fit with no problem.
BTW....I "think" these are the right ones for the job. I'm sure if they are not someone will point out my error.
Mine dropped right in. The gold matches the rest of the hardware perfectly, looks stock. As far as the switch goes, I left the original soldered to the stock wiring harness and have a "dummy" installed for right now. I may do something with that down the road. Maybe a standby switch or something.
"Knowledge is Power"