Worn Frets
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Worn Frets
This is a ? for Mark the Dr. Most of the frets on my 1981 480 have various indents, signs of wear etc. Is a recrowning/dressing in order ? My ear may not be perfect, but I don't notice any buzzing, my intonation seems to be all right, and my guitar pretty much stays in tune once it's acclimated to the room I'm in. Is there someone in the New York City area who could competently do this for me ? Also, there are various spots on the fretboard where the finish has worn through to the bare wood. Can this also be addressed at the same time ? $$$ won't be an issue unless it's totally outrageous.
this is in NO way an official position on frets and I am in no way related to the Rickenbacker International Corp.This is my personal opinion and not necessarily that of the factory and it's employees.
I have come to this opinion from years of studio ,live concert playing and players (Professional and amateur).From the great studio players of the TV/Film and sessions of Southern Calif. ,to the rest of the public that I have done work for.
Now to the question at hand .
Most frets brand new in the original form at a factory are about .045 tall.
The width is of no concern here.The point that the fret 'breaks' off the fret should be at the center of the top of the crown.This is the area where the slot was cut and where the layout of the frets is .
On worn frets the 'notch' that is worn, moves this location towards the nut.The average human ear can identify a difference of one fifth of a note ,that is 5 cents.And of course more .
When you start to move the fret scale towards the neck ,off center you will find that no matter how you intonate the bridge the open chords are not in tune.The G sharp of an E chord is glaringly noticeable.
Most manufacturers level and polish their frets .Some better than others .Rickenbackers are always extremely polished as they have a finished fretboard to polish and this takes care of the frets .Gibson is famous for rough frets .They have ALWAYS been that way .I don't know why ,but as I have been their warranty station since 1981 ,and owned /played them since 1972 ,this has not gone unnoticed .Fender does a good job on theres,but not like Ricks .Unless its a maple fretboard.
Anyway ...Frets need to be crowned to keep them in good playing order and to maintain good intonation.If ,however the wear of the fret is below 1/3rd of the original height ,there is NO crowning file that can reshape this to give you correct intonation.At this point you would need to have a refret done.
I use Dial calipers[ to check the height.
The usual spots are the 3rd string at the second and 5th and 7th frets ,the 2nd string at the 3rd ,5th frets .These are the first spots that get worn.ALWAYS!
Unless you are left handed and play in an alternative tuning or play slide.
I 'dress' my own frets at least once a year .I check the wear and tear and assess the damage/wear and take action .I do not know of any one in the NY,NY area to send you to ,sorry.There are lots of them .Ask someone .Call Electric Ladyland and see who they would send you to.
That is a good place to start .
The finish is another matter and what I would do is leave it alone.The time to fix it could be more than what it is worth and as the oils from your hands have colored the wood ,plus the woods has oxidized and darkened ...plus most shops don't deal with touchups very well.
When you get to the point of a total refret,then address this issue .
Why the fretboard is finished on Rickenbackers is only pure speculation on my part .I don't see why it is done .I did have several conversations about this when I worked there with Bill Meyers ,but that is another story.
I offer players the option of respraying the fretboard or leaving it bare.Myself ...I'll take mine bare.The wood darkens nicely and is easy to clean ,dress frets and refret .But that is a personal preference .
I hope this helps ...now back to our normal programming
I have come to this opinion from years of studio ,live concert playing and players (Professional and amateur).From the great studio players of the TV/Film and sessions of Southern Calif. ,to the rest of the public that I have done work for.
Now to the question at hand .
Most frets brand new in the original form at a factory are about .045 tall.
The width is of no concern here.The point that the fret 'breaks' off the fret should be at the center of the top of the crown.This is the area where the slot was cut and where the layout of the frets is .
On worn frets the 'notch' that is worn, moves this location towards the nut.The average human ear can identify a difference of one fifth of a note ,that is 5 cents.And of course more .
When you start to move the fret scale towards the neck ,off center you will find that no matter how you intonate the bridge the open chords are not in tune.The G sharp of an E chord is glaringly noticeable.
Most manufacturers level and polish their frets .Some better than others .Rickenbackers are always extremely polished as they have a finished fretboard to polish and this takes care of the frets .Gibson is famous for rough frets .They have ALWAYS been that way .I don't know why ,but as I have been their warranty station since 1981 ,and owned /played them since 1972 ,this has not gone unnoticed .Fender does a good job on theres,but not like Ricks .Unless its a maple fretboard.
Anyway ...Frets need to be crowned to keep them in good playing order and to maintain good intonation.If ,however the wear of the fret is below 1/3rd of the original height ,there is NO crowning file that can reshape this to give you correct intonation.At this point you would need to have a refret done.
I use Dial calipers[ to check the height.
The usual spots are the 3rd string at the second and 5th and 7th frets ,the 2nd string at the 3rd ,5th frets .These are the first spots that get worn.ALWAYS!
Unless you are left handed and play in an alternative tuning or play slide.
I 'dress' my own frets at least once a year .I check the wear and tear and assess the damage/wear and take action .I do not know of any one in the NY,NY area to send you to ,sorry.There are lots of them .Ask someone .Call Electric Ladyland and see who they would send you to.
That is a good place to start .
The finish is another matter and what I would do is leave it alone.The time to fix it could be more than what it is worth and as the oils from your hands have colored the wood ,plus the woods has oxidized and darkened ...plus most shops don't deal with touchups very well.
When you get to the point of a total refret,then address this issue .
Why the fretboard is finished on Rickenbackers is only pure speculation on my part .I don't see why it is done .I did have several conversations about this when I worked there with Bill Meyers ,but that is another story.
I offer players the option of respraying the fretboard or leaving it bare.Myself ...I'll take mine bare.The wood darkens nicely and is easy to clean ,dress frets and refret .But that is a personal preference .
I hope this helps ...now back to our normal programming
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
By the way ,when you stay on top of the dressing of frets ...and I know this sounds crazy at first ...they last longer !
Why /how you ask ?!?
Well because as you play ,you wear a spot in the frets .The more you play ,this spot becomes more pronounced .The worse it get ...this allows the string to now find the 'groove to go to and it begins to act like a saw in that groove.Look at some older instruments that have serious wear on them ,you will find some really bad pits.
If the wear spot are caught in time Then only a minimal amount of wire is removed and no one spot is there for the string to 'fall 'into .
Check your frets ....go to the classic spots and if there are visible wears spots....have the frets dressed .You'll thank me and the person that does the work.
Why /how you ask ?!?
Well because as you play ,you wear a spot in the frets .The more you play ,this spot becomes more pronounced .The worse it get ...this allows the string to now find the 'groove to go to and it begins to act like a saw in that groove.Look at some older instruments that have serious wear on them ,you will find some really bad pits.
If the wear spot are caught in time Then only a minimal amount of wire is removed and no one spot is there for the string to 'fall 'into .
Check your frets ....go to the classic spots and if there are visible wears spots....have the frets dressed .You'll thank me and the person that does the work.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Thanks for the info, Mark. Is "crowned and polished" the same as "dressing" ? I got a quote of $175- for this (including a setup) here in NYC. BTW, a couple of shops I called wouldn't even consider working on a Rickenbacker ! They won't be getting any of my money for anything. As for the finish, I'll leave as is. Doesn't affect my playing at all, I was just curious. But I do like the distinct color of what I believe is Brazilian rosewood on my fretboard - nothing else even comes close.
dressing of the frets is ;
leveling (I use a stone to do this as files are not level/flat ,something I learned from a German machinist)
recrowning (putting the arch back into the top of the fret once they have been leveled)
polishing (removing all of the scratches from the surface of the fret crown to make for a slippery smooth fret surface .This allows for ease of bending of strings .)
Sorry to tell you but the wood of the fretboard is not Brazilian rosewood.It is most likely something called 'HongKong rosewood' or bubinga or even Paduak .But Brazilian rosewood was rarely use and only in the early ,non finished fretboard days.There may be examples of fretboards that wer finished ,but B.Rosewood doesnot generally like to be finished.
leveling (I use a stone to do this as files are not level/flat ,something I learned from a German machinist)
recrowning (putting the arch back into the top of the fret once they have been leveled)
polishing (removing all of the scratches from the surface of the fret crown to make for a slippery smooth fret surface .This allows for ease of bending of strings .)
Sorry to tell you but the wood of the fretboard is not Brazilian rosewood.It is most likely something called 'HongKong rosewood' or bubinga or even Paduak .But Brazilian rosewood was rarely use and only in the early ,non finished fretboard days.There may be examples of fretboards that wer finished ,but B.Rosewood doesnot generally like to be finished.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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mikeobrien58
John, if you're still looking for someone in the NYC area to do the fret dress, let me recommend Bob Jones in Brooklyn (718) 965-6786, email [email protected]. I'm pretty sure he does Rickenbackers. He's done a lot of work on my guitars over the years, including one extremely serious repair that came out beautifully. He comes highly recommended, and is considered the "go-to" guy in my neck of the woods.
Mark: Thanks for the clarifications. I thought the fretboard was Brazilian rosewood because I seem to remember the salesperson where I ordered it told me that.
Mike: Thanks for the name and number. I'll check him out next time I have the frets dressed as I plan on following Mark's advice to have it done much sooner than the 19 years I waited.
Mike: Thanks for the name and number. I'll check him out next time I have the frets dressed as I plan on following Mark's advice to have it done much sooner than the 19 years I waited.
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John_OCaroll
Mark: Thanks for your advice. Rudy's Music here in NYC (723 7 Av, tel# 212-391-1699) did a great job dressing the frets on my 480. You were absolutely correct: I thank both you and the tech (Vinny) for bringing my Rick to optimum playing condition. I played it through my silver face Super Reverb (blackface modded) at rehearsal Wednesday night and I just could not be happier !!!
Thanks again. John
Thanks again. John