4004Cii

robj · Post by **robj** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:02 am

After reading this thread I find I am very happy I took a leap of faith and ordered (sight unseen) my 4004C-I thru my local music store and went on to order my 4004C-II a year later over the internet. I battle back and forth as to which of these basses is my main 4 string. I would love to have a 4004cii/5 as my main 5 string, but that's another story.

Other than my 4004's I have never seen one live.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:41 pm

Perhaps some of the problem with delays are the fault of the dealers that they are ordered from. When I ordered my 4004 II in '02 they told me it would be a 6 to 7 month delay. I recieved my bass 6 months to the day. I even called about a month after placing my order and changed my finish preference. I ordered mine from Chuck Levins Washington Music Center and have had good luck with them for years.

jeff_ulmer · Post by **jeff_ulmer** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:06 pm

You can't get accurate order times from Ric, so the dealers aren't able to give accurate info either. I have asked on numerous occasions calling the factory if I can get a window when a particular instrument should be available, and have pretty much always been told they didn't know, especially on their non mainline instruments.

This is one area I wish would improve, as if I am ordering something it is pretty important to know when funds need to be available.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:10 am

We schedule goods out many months in advance, knowing in most cases within one week when a particular model will be coming through. But we have no idea whether the dealer will actually be in a position to accept the goods (at credit limit or overdue, for example) or where any particular customer fits into the dealer's queue. The goods that come through, therefore, are only allocated to the dealer when they move through the end of the line into our finished goods inventory. For that reason, the production schedule information is not supplied to our sales or customer service department. That's why we only quote a blanket figure for all new orders coming in.

The solution is for us to increase capacity so dealers can actually have some stock for immediate delivery. To this end we are now scheduling production with a 20% increase in output, having sucessfully implemented another 20% one earlier this year. This is the result of adding staff at the end of last year who are now out of training and up to speed.

One dealer that has taken advantage of this is Guitar Center which now has several hundred units in their distribution center inventory with many hundreds more in the pipeline. While the model selection is fairly limited right now, the stocking depth is good and the width will only continue to increase. Our overseas distributors are also now enjoying a somewhat better flow of goods too.

philco · Post by **philco** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:53 pm

If Guitar Center is supplied with lots of 4004 basses, there is no reason the 4004 would not become one of their largest selling bass models in the high quality category. The USA Fender basses are good, but the 4004 is a bit more comfortable and more comtemporary in style. This is obvious to anybody that could try one in person along with a Fender. I read somewhere that if production is doubled, the costs could be reduced 20% on average for most manufactured goods. Any chance of this on the 4004 models, Mr. Hall?

Fender has obviously made an effort to reduce prices with their Highway 1 models using a thinner finish. The Rickenbacker 650D may have been an "inspiration" for Fender to regain a more competitive pricing structure relative to the imports and Peavey. The 650C being available now in all standard RIC finishes has no doubt caught the eye of Fender management. The 4004 is probably the most serious future challenger to Fender basses in volume of sales among all American manufactured basses. Having the 4004L available in all standard RIC finishes will have Fender taking notice as well. Having them available IN STOCK at major retailers in COLOR CHOICES would REALLY have Fender management taking notice! Having them available in greatly increased numbers at considerably reduced prices would cause Fender management major concern......like they would be having Excedrin headache #4004. Fender has been the "bass guitar king" forever, in volume of quality basses sold. Everybody knows that Rickenbacker has filled the #2 slot in the past, and it had nothing to do with quality, but ready availability of product on dealer racks. The Aerodyne Jazz Bass is no doubt Fender's new answer to the 4004L Laredo. It sells for considerably less than the 4004L and comes in Fender's answer to Jetglo. No doubt, Fender will add more colors later if sales take off. I have a hankering to try an Aerodyne Jazz Bass myself. If the 4004L was available in stock at lower prices than it is now, I could see it stealing a lot of sales from the Aerodyne among customers looking for a higher quality instrument. While Rickenbacker guitars are highly regarded, it is the various 4000 series basses that are held in the highest regard relative to their respective competition, from my observation. I'm hoping for a bit of a "bass war" between Fender and Rickenbacker in the near future. Everybody doesn't like some bass guitar, but nobody doesn't like a Rickenbacker bass guitar. Therefore, I consider it the "Sara Lee of bass guitars" and deserving of much greater popularity.

Fender, it seems you will have Rickenbacker giving you a bit more competition in the bass arena in the near future. Hopefully, bass players will be able to benefit from it, whichever brand they decide to buy. I hope more ready availability of 4004 models will be one of those benefits.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:21 pm

We want more Ric basses!!! Especially 5 string models ... I have no real use for a 4 string bass ...

I was at guitar center a while ago and some kid came in asking for a Rickenbacker bass ... all the salesman could say was we a couple in a while ago but they sold quickly ... the kid walked out without buying anything ...

Not every body likes Rick basses ... I played in a blues band once and the guitarist wanted me to do a dull thud thud gibson bass sound ... I played gigs with my ric and he wasn't happy ....

So I play a 4003s5 with a tremendous thunderous sound ... treble bite, mid punch, and full a bottom ...

I'd like to have a five string ric with reverse wound pickups so with vol, vol tone controls ... If Ric never makes one like this then I will have to customize my own ... I am looking at doing this to my new 4004L ...

I don't know about a bass war ... I like owning lots of Fender and Ric basses ... I just like the Ric basses better ...

philco · Post by **philco** » Thu May 01, 2003 1:38 am

By "bass war", I meant a lot more Rickenbacker basses being manufactured to finally give Fender a showdown in the showroom. Rickenbacker loses sales to Fender time and again because Fender is there and Rickenbacker isn't.

Regarding the blues band, I should have said that nobody with eclectic musical taste doesn't like a Rickenbacker bass. I went to Beale Street in Memphis once, and was disappointed in how similar most bands sounded up and down the street. I guess most blues players are stuck in a rut or something. They would probably like it if you played a P-bass with dead strings, but I found my P-bass to have less sound variety than I was looking for. I think I'll get a MIM Fender J-bass to play around with, just to have it around for something different.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu May 01, 2003 1:57 am

Jwr2 wrote

We want more Ric basses!!! Especially 5 string models ... I have no real use for a 4 string bass ...

Jeff: I found your comment to be an interesting one. I am wondering what the factors are that have lead to the advent of the five string bass. Is it a particular type of music that lead to the popularity of this bass or is it just a logical extension of the four string? Why is it that you have no need for a 4 string? Also, what do you think of the BEAD tuning on a four string. I am hoping that someone reading this will comment on this tuning with a Rickenbacker bass.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu May 01, 2003 4:44 am

First of all .. I play a lot of Creed, 3 doors down, and other modern bands .... The low D note on bass is a must ... I used to play a 1973 4001 with regular tunning, and a jazz bass tuned to D G C F .... the problem is I would then play the wrong fret sometimes in certain songs because I forgot which tunning I was using ...

Then when I got my first 5 string ... I would get confused and grab the wrong string ... my IQ is only about 120 ... so I have limited bandwidth for playing music ... I can't do all the stuff that Geddy Lee does ... So to keep my brain from locking up on stage I only play 5 string basses ... I can then use one bass for all the music that I play .... even in the classic rock or blues I can use a low d or c once in a while.

Also I really like my 1990 4003s5 ... it really feels good ... it took me a while to adjust to the tighter spacing and the 5th string ... but now I can play faster and cleaner with this bass ... the spacing on most basses seems awkward to me now. I have smaller hands so closer spacing and narrower necks work better for me. I have also converted all of my fender style basses from 4 to 5 string models ... I put 5 strings on a 4 string neck ... I like the feel.

Also with a 5 string bass you can go 2 octaves without going way up the neck. I can go low D to a D up two octaves in almost a hand's width. If somebody is tuned to e flat ... no problem ... I can go down to B ...

Why don't I use a 4 string tuned B E A D? first of all spacing ... second I play lots of high notes on my G string ... the high G and A notes are a must ... the high C and D I need as well.

5 string basses are becoming mainstream ... most of the bands that play modern music have bass players with 5 or 6 string basses ...

robj · Post by **robj** » Thu May 01, 2003 1:09 pm

I agree with Jeff on most of his reasoning for using a 5 string. I love the extended range. I do mostly original music projects which is newer style music and the 5 really fits in well there.

I play a M*d*l*s Q5 and really like the string spacing and 35"scale, I've had it for 10 years. I prefer the wider neck and spacing personally, I just could not play the 4003/5 at all because of the tighter spacing between strings, though I did try a few times on borrowed basses.

When/if RIC begins shipping the 4004c-ii/5 I will certainly buy one and at that point my Rick 4 strings (I have 5) wont see much playing time and my M*d*l*s will likely be for sale, especially if RIC decided to lengthen the scale and maybe offer some options like active pickups and coil splitting/ phase switching.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Thu May 01, 2003 1:42 pm

To respond to Mr. Hall:
I was in GC yesterday (Hawthorne, CA) with the clear intent to see Rickenbackers. Nary a one in site, save for a used 360 in the used section. I live a few miles from the Sherman Oaks, Ca store, and rarely see any there, or if I do the selection is way to limited. I'm sure it's the same elsewhere. Unless Rickenbacker plans on selling only by word of mouth, I would suggest a bigger presence in stores. They are by far the most beautiful and beautifully made guitars, and I'm sure the traffic in and out of these stores would at least put one on their wish list, after their budgets rise above Mexican Strats. Owning two, I've about eight on MY wish list. Though my wife woulda killed me, I was willing to impulse buy a 660/12 yesterday, had I seen one. As it is I own 3 Strats, one a Custom Shop impulse buy (my Rics are basses, whereas I play guitar now). Do I not understand the Rickenbacker agenda?

wormdiet · Post by **wormdiet** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:17 pm

. . . .It clearly seems like the "agenda" is to have GC *swimming* in ricks ASAP! Which is fantastic. The ball is no longer in Santa Ana, it's in GC distrib limbo. Let's spam their servers with Rick requests! Wouldn;t it be ironic to close their website with a "denial of service" attack?

I do hope that GC educates their staff about the product. When I was stalking a recent, used JG 4003 (very good condition, ****** setup) at the Raleigh location, the sales guys told me the model was discontinued. They wanted more for it than you can spend for new ones online. They had no idea what they were talking about. Since I had at least some clue, their claims came off as rather obnoxious.

Let me guess what models will show up at GC first: 330/6, 360/12, 4003, 650c or 650d ??

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Thu May 01, 2003 7:03 pm

The lack of presence in stores is because incoming orders far exceed our production capacity. The majority of units are already presold by the time they arrive in the store and therefore never hang on the wall.

Given that GC has over 100 stores, it will be a very long time before the pipeline fills up enough that many will be visible.

John, you were right about one item!

wormdiet · Post by **wormdiet** » Fri May 02, 2003 1:47 am

SInce this is the bass forum, 4003??

blueflamerick · Post by **blueflamerick** » Fri May 02, 2003 6:39 am

Mr. Hall, since you posted that "We schedule goods out many months in advance, knowing in most cases within one week when a particular model will be coming through.", how about a response to the original question of this thread, when will the next production run of the 4004cii be?