Gibson ES330TD - But What Year?

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat May 10, 2003 12:58 am

I am having a discussion with a local music store owner about the year of the following Gibson ES330TD. I would be grateful if you could contribute your knowledge of Gibson forensics here. The serial number is 130003 wich according to my view places this instrument around 1963 or 1964. On the flip side of the coin, Gibson is said to have recycled their 1960s numbers in the early 70s. I am not sure abut this but that is the claim. The main argument that the instrument in question is a 1970 is based on where the neck meets the body, at the 17th fret. Earlier models, it is argued, had the neck meeting the body at the 15th fret. I don't think this was a hard and fast rule. I have posted the mystery year model first and then examples of 1960, 1965 and 1967 Gibson ES330TD instruments. So what do you think. The tuners have been replaced on the mystery year model.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat May 10, 2003 2:19 am

Here are two additional closeup photos of the Gibson ES330TD body and pickups.

jazzsmith · Post by **jazzsmith** » Sat May 10, 2003 3:17 am

Don't the '70's models have "Made in U.S.A. " stamped on the back of the headstock? Gruhn's book does say that the long 335 style neck came in in 1969. Those "witch hat" knobs are typical of later '60's Gibsons. Also, the hardware on late '60's models is the shinier chrome instead of the more silvery nickel. The Made in U.S.A. stamp would be the giveaway. Gruhn also says that '67 was a repeat year for the sreial number of this one and I have to say, it looks very much like a '67 Kalamazoo made Epi Casino that I once owned, except for the long scale. One other thing - the saddles on earlier '60's ABR-1 bridges have plastic saddles. Around '66, '67 they switched to metal.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat May 10, 2003 3:25 am

Jeffrey: Based on the plastic saddles on this guitar and no USA stamped on the back of the headstock it does not seem to fit the 1970s features to me. The flash makes the pups look more blue but they are of the nickel vintage to me. I must agree with you though that there is an "Epi look" here. The tuners are and after market edition so it seems reasonable that the witch hats may be also. The 1965 Gibson model shown in the above series of photos also has the witch hats and the neck joining at the 17th fret. Perhaps the owner needs to pull the pickups and look for a date code.

jazzsmith · Post by **jazzsmith** » Sat May 10, 2003 3:29 am

Also Peter, I'm wondering about the picture you put up as examples from other years. Is it possible that two are switched? The sunburst finish guitar looks like a '65 and the mahogany finish looks like '67 - the reason? The knobs and the shinier chrome looking finish on the mahogany. Here's something else to check. Gibsons made up to and including '65 have a nut that is 1 and 11/16ths in width. In '66 they went to approx. 1 and 9/16ths. That is very apparent in the top photo of the 1960 model.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat May 10, 2003 6:47 am

Jeffrey: I believe the photos are in the correct order. The black P90s were installed on the first ES330TD models with nickel and chrome to follow. I measured the nut on the mystery date model this afternoon. It appears to be original and measures very close to 1 and 9/16 inches in width.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed May 14, 2003 5:40 am

From the Rickenbacker Forum mailbox, Jimmy Nicolaou writes

"The ES330 in question is a late 60's model. I place it around 68-69.
What makes me think so is the fact that the "witch" control knobs are present and the chrome hardware and P90 covers lean to that as well.

I need to know if there is an ink stamp that reads ES330 in the upper "f" hole as well as a serial number. Also the fact that that the guitar
does not have "Made in the USA" stamped on the back of the headstock further dates it to the late 60's but before 1970 when the stamp was
introduced. From what I know the majority of 330's up until 1967 had the neck join at the 16th fret as opposed to the 19th fret neck join found
on models possibly late 1967 and later. Could you send me a photo of the Gibson logo on the headstock as it would help me pinpoint the year more accurately?"

Cheers Jimmy Nicolaou

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:52 am

Jimmy: Here is a photo of the headstock.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu May 15, 2003 12:23 am

Mr. Nicolaou writes

"Gibson logos had different variations through the years. One could also approximately date the guitar by studying the logo. This guitar shows a pearl logo that has an open "b" and open "o". This tells me the following.

Pearl logo: open "b" and "o": 1948-1969
Pearl logo: "pantograph" style, closed "b" and "o": 1969-1984
Therefore more proof leans to the guitar being a late 68-69.

The only thing that throws a spanner in the works is the serial number on the guitar which is 130003. This is a serial number that corresponds
to a 1963 model. However that serial number appears again on guitars made in 1970. Another important factor to consider is the volute on the
neck. Pre 1970 models did not have a volute. They were introduced in 1970. Exactly when in that year I do not know.

So my theory is as follows. The guitar could possibly be a very early 1970 model, with a neck before the volute was introduced later that year. This would then tie up the serial number, hardware, logo, and specs of the guitar. However and this is just speculation. If the guitar had a serial number that read 730003 it would accurately be dated as being a late 1967 model,
maybe one of the first to have the neck join at the 19th fret. Truly a mystery model." Jimmy