Low RIC output?

hellfart · Post by **hellfart** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:07 am

I have a Ric 4001 from '76, replaced the bridge element a while ago because my output was waaay to low. Now I replaced the pickup, but it hasn't changed much about the output. :-/

I have a Trace-Elliot 250 watt head, and when I plug in my Ric, the amp keeps begging for more gain; same with my Behringer backup 450 watt head, it has a VU indicator, and it hardly moves when playing. When I plug in my Epiphone Thunderbird, I have to take the passive-input, because my Epiphone output is way louder!

Now, I'm not a hero in electronics and stuff... but has anybody got an idea what may cause the problem here? Something with the circuit?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:16 am

'Bridge element'? You mean the saddle block? As for replacing the bridge pickup, unless it is a really hot replacement you won't get much more output from it either. Your best bet is still to remove a small treble pass capacitor which is fitted between the selector switch and the treble volume control on your 4001. By doing so you'll lose the typical Rickenbacker clanking tone, but you'll get more than enough output from the treble pickup.

hellfart · Post by **hellfart** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:02 am

I ment pickup idd

In Dutch we say "element", my mistake

Thnx already!

dminer · Post by **dminer** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:04 am

Remove or bypass the cap. Or, get the new push-cap pot. You'll notice a HUGE difference. Someone had already done the mod on my 76 and the sound is great!! Nice and even on both pups... I bypassed the cap on my 4005 and I'm very happy with the new sound on that bass as well!

kcole4001 · Post by **kcole4001** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:41 am

I have a '76 4000, a '77 4001, & a '81 4080 and I have to use the active input on my SWR. The caps are off all 3 (the 4000 never had one, of course).

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:03 am

I believe you have a wiring problem that is causing the low output. You should not have a problem driving either amp input.

With the volume pots all the way up, an ohmmeter reading for the elements (using the selector switch) should be around 7.5k or so for either the neck or bridge element/pickup. I would look at that.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:02 am

1st of all a tbird bass will be hotter than a 4001 ... tbird pickups are in the 15k ohm range and they have strong magnets and 500k ohm pots ... a 70s 4001 will have 8k ohm single coil pickups ...

to make the 4001 hotter first get the pickups closer to the strings, next try bypassing the capacitor ... if it is still weak get an ohm meter and see if the pickups are in the 8k ohm range ... sometimes a pickup will go bad and only be 2 or 3k ohms ... if the bass is still not hot enough for you then try new 11k ohm 4003 pickups or 15k ohm hb1 4004 pickups ...

Also a good solution for a player with different basses is get a bass pod and make one patch for the 4001, another for the t-bird and make patches for the other basses ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:09 am

I sold all of my 60s and 70s 4001 basses and got 4003, 4004, and 2030 models because the ouput is a lot better on the newer models ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:12 am

isn't the passive input for low gain basses and the active input for high gain basses ... on most amps the active input has a -16db cut ...

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:36 am

I though a Rick WAS a passive bass!!
Jeff is RIGHT! Use the passive input. The active input is for basses with a built in active preamp circuit. Otherwise you'll end up with a weak signal...

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:37 am

There should be a 'T' at the end of though..T

hellfart · Post by **hellfart** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:51 am

I always use the passive input for my Ric

Anyway, will have the wiring and output-strength checked soon! Thanks already!

edski · Post by **edski** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:04 pm

My 4001 (capped) has a very powerful neck PU, and the bridge is, well, capped.

But there is no doubt that there is ample output from either PU. With anything less than 2 15" speakers I won't use the bridge PU solo, but I will use it with 1/3 to 1/2 neck blended in and get a fine sound out of my 2x10. So there is no truth to the old wives tale that Ricks (even mid 70's) have low output. It's like the legend of the Red Ric...

Not that I'm any genius, but for reference I have a 300 W Behringer POS with that input meter...and if I get that needle to deflect 1/2 way means I'm digging in too hard and am at risk for getting a blister.

So don't use that VU meter for anything resembling guidance. It's purely there for looks.