Weak neck (toaster) on 4001 v63

funksterman · Post by **funksterman** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:17 am

All,

I've seen some discussion around weak bridge pickups but less so for neck.

I have quite a substantial volume difference between bridge and neck pickups on my 4001 v63 - and don't really get why.

I've raised / lowered in various combinations - given that I thought the neck toaster should give more bass output - it's much weaker - particularly on the E string...

Now, if I lower the bridge too much then I end up with string rattle against the underside of the horseshoes. (was aiming to compensate my amp volume as the bass is Loud)

Is there a way of adjusting bridge pickup height without catching my 'shoes?

(I have the E string side of toaster raised to max height, G string lowest - there is almost consistent volume across the toaster- E still a bit weak)

Any thoughts on what I should do please?

(I haven't yet opened it up to see what's inside regarding caps... bit afraid to do that right now)

Thanks
Jo

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:31 am

On some (apparently not all) V63s there is a big difference between the pickups. I have a '94 that has a very hot horseshoe and a relatively weak toaster. Toasters are not particularly hot in the first place so the hot horseshoe makes the toaster seem weaker. I am told that the C64 has a better balance in that regard.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:41 am

cool fret markers

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:17 pm

I have both a C64 and a V63 and the balance is better on the C64. The V horsie is very hot compared to the toaster. One thing you could do is back off the volume of the horseshoe a little in comparison to the toaster and turn the toaster and the amp volume up. I've never tried this myself since the difference in output between the two has never bothered me. That horseshoe has a nice cutting sound IMHO.

cerrem · Post by **cerrem** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:47 pm

I had a similair problem....
Two things I did totally fixed the problem...
One is the screws that hold the toaster cover on have too big a head... This prevents the toaster from being raised where it needs to be..I removed all 4 screws and nuts and used stranded wire that I looped, twisted and soldered..This allowed the toaster to be adjusted much higher towards the strings... The other thing I did was to get a toaster thats was at 13K ....
Now my neck toaster has a big fat sound that matches the volume of my bridge pup

Chris

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:14 pm

I decided to change my 8k toaster to a 13k high gain. It would be interesting to hear some sound bytes comparing the 8k and 13k toasters to 8k and 13k neck high gains.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:55 pm

I wanna hear those semi-wound toasters (like, 10K) that people were talking about before . . . someone said that the reissues now are too weak, and the older reissues were too hot, so something in between would work.

Actually, I'd like to just hear my bass with both a hi-gain and a toaster, just to see what exactly happens to the tone.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 am

I have done what Chris did on several of my basses (usually 4001's) it causes a substantial increase in output of the neck pickup whatever it is. I didn't even use wire, I just use the two outside screws, they themselves will keep the case together if you hold the case halves together as you turn the screw in. I had a V63 with a weak toaster, the horseshoe totally overpowered it, my other V63 was balanced. I'm not sure what the problem was with the first one. I wouldn't recommend lowering the volume control of the horseshoe, you will lose the bite. I would raise the toaster as Chris and I (and others) have done, it works unless your horseshoe is really weak, in that case I'd buy a new one.

funksterman · Post by **funksterman** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:35 am

OK,
This makes sense and I'm glad I'm not mad - I'll try the suggested regarding toaster screws - I'm also not keen on backing off the pickup volume, too easy for me to make a hash of it mid gig.

So I have this straight (as I haven't had the pick guard off yet, underneath the pickguard on the toaster pu it has screws holding the cover on which are restricting the lift height of the toaster assembly.

Fiddle around with the screws and hey presto, you get more height range to adjust?

Will post my findings

Thanks all for suggestions.

Cheers
Jo

alansan · Post by **alansan** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:14 am

On a different topic, why are the pickguards on some v63s fitted perfectly in relation to the HS pickup surround and others aren't?

I've also noticed a lot of variation in the distance from the bottom of the pickguard and the edge of the bass on V63s, whereas all the C64s I've seen so far were consistently around an inch away.

tsarter · Post by **tsarter** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:05 pm

Very helpful post. I've noticed the same things in regards to my horseshoe pickup on my '97 V63. Actually works well for me. With both pickups up full there is a somewhat rounder tone with less output. When I roll off the toaster pickup a bit I get much more output and bite. I use this as my main tone control and it works out just fine.

I still will try adjusting the screws as described.

- Tim

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:12 pm

Alan: There are at least two different surround shapes on the V63/4001CS models. The differences are not subtle. Perhaps that is what you are seeing?

cerrem · Post by **cerrem** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:14 pm

There is another trick you can do to get more output and bite... The VOLUME pot is normally a 250K ...but of the used 70's ones I measured, they are usually 170K to 200K range... Make sure yours is atleast 250K ....The tone pots were 500K.. The trick I do is use a 500K pot for a volume pot on the neck...This way you get a bit more output and bite from the neck....
For the toaster pup... I remove all 4 screws and nuts that hold the chrome cover on... I get stranded wire and strip the jacket off...then I twist the stranded tight, then I loop it through the hole and twist it tight then solder it then cut off the excess with a cutter.. I do that for all 4 holes ...Then I sometimes don't bother with the rubber grommets...I just turn the screws to get the pup up against the bottom of the pick-guard...CAUTION..don't overtighten those pick-up height screws..the pickguard can easily crack..
AFter I did this...I was sounding like the Revolver album

Chris

alansan · Post by **alansan** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:41 pm

Thanks Ted, you've given me something new to look out for. I've never liked the way some pickguards don't meet the pickup surround and/or are too close to the edge of the body (I realise that on stock 4003's this is so a HS can still be fitted). The C64 guards are the best looking in my opinion.

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:22 pm

Yeah, When I first bought my V63 the pickguard was cracked over the toaster from someone who tried to raise the toaster too high. I don't think RIC counted on so many people wanting more output from the toaster as opposed to the horseshoe. And when you back off the horseshoe a little in accordance with the horsie, you get a nice Macca type sound and something closer to the C64 balance. That's assuming the bass is strung with flats. If rounds are on it, that's a different situation.