Killer 4001 Sound

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Wed May 07, 2003 9:47 am

Back in the 70's there were some notable users of the 4001 bass besides Chris Squire.
'Last Tango' (1975) by group Esperanto features some killer 4001 tone and playing. I think this has been re-released on CD. Check it out.
There was also the uncompromising tone of Martin Gordon's 4001 with Sparks on their 1974 'Kimono My House' album.
A 4001 also featured prominently on Druid's two albums 'Toward The Sun' and 'Fluid' (1975 and 1976 respectively).
A group from the late 70's called Hush (anyone ever heard of them?), though hardly special in terms of musical creativity, had a fascinating 4001 tone quality to their sound.
There was also Jon Camp with Renaissance, of course, and Ray Bennett with Flash, plus many others too numerous to mention.
And then there are today's upholders of the 4001 sound tradition, i.e. us! I'm proud to say that we, too, are way too numerous to mention!

bassman · Post by **bassman** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:10 am

I always loved Paul Goddard of the Atlanta Rhythm Section's sound. A 4001 and a SVT. I wonder what Paul's doing these days?

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:54 am

In the early '70's, the 4001 was the Bass d'jour. You weren't nobody if you didn't have one. Top end players like Squire, to the plodding tones of Deep Purple, almost every rock band of that era had a 4001 bassist,. Every where I looked, I saw 'em. I had one, too (did it no justice, though). Everyone I knew played one, for better or for worse. Jazz guys still played Fenders, though.
BTW, just the other day in a video being played at the Hard Rock Cafe, Universal City, I saw a video of a 20 something band, self consciously '60's retro looking (I even recognized the name, though I don't remember now). The singer, with a Beatle haircut was playing a cheap looking Silvertone type "see-how-trendily-non-trendy-I-am-guitar", hopping onto the latest trend. The bassist, however, had a new Ric in blue. He's the only one not looking and acting like a poseur, just playing. The song was halfway decent, in a '60's garage sort of way, but as far as I could discern above the din of the restaurant, they weren't featuring that Ric sound.
BTW the most recent CD I bought by someone creating a buzz, after hearing one song/video in a public marketplace was The Strokes. It is now a chew toy for my Chocolate Lab. Hope she won't choke on it like I did.

lshaia · Post by **lshaia** » Thu May 08, 2003 3:30 am

Paul Goddard is listed as a "regularly scheduled celebrity DJ" on the progressive rock web station deliciousagony.com, which incidentally plays some of the music you've described.

melibreits · Post by **melibreits** » Fri May 09, 2003 4:47 am

Another obscure band with a great 4001 sound was the late 70's-early 80's Christian hard rock band Barnabas.... they have some out-of-this world bass riffs in the style of early Rush.... A few months back we bought a re-released compilation of two of their alboums: "Hear the Light" and "Find Your Heart a Home"; it's available at www.christiandiscs.com. After all these years their music still rocks....

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:17 am

I'm eventually going to get together a "definitive" list of albums (not just artists - their tastes change) that have "the" RIC bass sound on a website. Obvious RIC 400x albums that don't quite have that trebly-growl-proggy sound will be left off (All Beatles, Pink Floyd etc. - sounds great, but it's not "the" sound.)

I'm open to any suggestions, but I won't list it until I hear it. (Don't worry; I'm a collector!) Please send artist-album names (not sounds) to mortivan(AT)wideopenwest(DOT)com.

Typical examples would be, Starcastle-Starcastle, Yes-Fragile, Renaissance-Scheherezade, Druid-Fluid Druid, Marilion-Script for a Jester's Tear, Spock's Beard-V, Nektar-Journey to the Centre of the Eye, Crack the Sky-Crack the Sky.

I'll ask for a consensus regarding "borderline albums" such as Genesis-Selling English by the Pound. Also, I'm still debating about albums that pretty much hit that sound, but being confirmed as non-RIC, or unsure (i.e. Rush's song, Tom Sawyer was played entirely with a Jazz bass).

Also, please be patient; it'll be a while before I create a site, but I promise I will. It'll also have a virtual dream-RIC section containing high quality rendered graphics of RIC's in a multitude of configurations (Oceanglo being a priority!)

So, send 'em in (album recommendations, that is - the dream-RIC list is already large!

Thanks!

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Mon May 12, 2003 10:49 am

Great idea, John. I'll be sure to compile such a list of my own and send it to you. Check your e-mail in a couple of days' time.

wormdiet · Post by **wormdiet** » Mon May 12, 2003 5:18 pm

The live version of Tom Sawyer on Exit. . . Stage Left IS a Rick I believe.

WHich REM albums feature a rick bass?

Stone Roses is Rick but not the typical sound. . .

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue May 20, 2003 4:44 am

John Cyg, here's a short list for you.

'Last Tango'/Esperanto (A&M 1975)
'Kimono My House'/Sparks (Island 1974)
'Valley Gardens'/Wally (Atlantic 1975)
'Starcastle'/Starcastle (Epic 1976)
'Citadel'/Starcastle (Epic 1978)
'Fountains Of Light'/Starcastle (Epic 1977)
'Hush'/Hush (ASI 1978)
'Ashes Are Burning'/Renaissance (Sovereign 1973)
'Live'/Kraan (Gull 1975)
'Toward The Sun' & 'Fluid'/Druid (EMI 1975 & 1976)
'Recycled'/Nektar (Decca 1977)
'Yes' through to 'Drama'/Yes (Atlantic 1969-1980)
'Art In America'/Art In America (Epic 1983)
'Illusions On A...'/Triumvirat (Harvest 1973)
Both albums by Flash on Sovereign.
That's all for the time being.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Tue May 20, 2003 5:01 am

...yeah but I think "Helter Skelter" has a reasonably notable ric sound...and the alternative take (on Anthology) of "And Your Bird Can Sing" has a ric sound...and some pretty good (not used on final take) bass riffs. I know yer talkin' albums, but just wanted to mention these.

jmporter · Post by **jmporter** » Tue May 20, 2003 6:20 am

Wasn't Entwistle playing a Ric on Quadrophenia ? I'm pretty sure he used it on the tour at least. Not a 4001 though.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue May 20, 2003 8:00 am

Jack: Was it a Model 4005 Lightshow?

jmporter · Post by **jmporter** » Tue May 20, 2003 10:48 am

I don't think it was that one. I seem to remember the cutaways having sharper ends. Wish I still had the tour booklet that I bought !

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:26 pm

Thanks for the lists so far! Seems like we have some great tastes in music...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:49 am

I don't think that the so called ric sound you guys are describing is so much a Ric sound, as a Ric with round wound sound. there are plenty of us Ric players out here who use flats and think of that as being the Ric sound. Rics have been around a lot longer than round wound strings have. Pigeon holing the sound of a Rickenbacker bass like that just holds them back IMHO. Chris Squire has a great tone, but then again to my ears so did Maurice Gibb (the antithisis of Squire on the real early Bee Gees tunes from the sixties) Rics are a much more versatile bass than most people realize. A lot of people think of them as having only that real trebly tone, that they are a one trick pony. As someone pointed out you can make a Jazz bass sound like that too. You can also very easily make a Ric sound like a Jazz bass if so desired. I think we are doing Ric basses a great disservice by not pointing out ALL the great sounds they are capable of. I've been playing a long time, and Rics have had sort of a bad name in certain quarters which is finally starting to dissipate, let us not stir it up again. I play all kinds of music, and always use my Rics, I actually like it when people are not as familiar with them as they were 20 years ago as then they have no preconceptions about the sound. I plug in and play with my flats and get compliments on the big fat sound I get. I also use round wounds on some, and I like the trebly sound also, but it is not the only sound you can get from a ric bass.