4001 necks. Flat or relieved?

ben_brown · Post by **ben_brown** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:50 pm

I've been playing basses and guitars all my life and I always thought(and heard) that necks need some small amount of relief in order to be played easily and efficiently. I have a brand new 4003 and the neck seems very flat and I find it hard to lower the action to my liking without ridiculous fret buzzing. I recently played a '74 4001 with really low action that played like a dream and it's neck had a NOTICEABLE amount of relief in it. My old fender basses have relief in the neck and they play fine. I have read here more than once that "the neck needs to be flat". Please correct me if I'm wrong. A brand spankin' new Rick bass that buzzes with an already undesirable thick neck just doesn't cut it! What's up with that?

woodsgirl · Post by **woodsgirl** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:01 pm

I am not an expert or a tech but, I took my 4001 in and had a pro set up and it made a world of difference. I would have someone who really knows what they are doing look at it. It does have some relief in the neck and now does not buzz at all with low action. E always buzzed before if I set the action low.

ben_brown · Post by **ben_brown** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:10 pm

Well right now every string buzzes on every fret and the action is not that low and I keep it in the case in an air conditioned basement. Another thing is that I want to lower the action at the nut. It's way too high for my liking.

woodsgirl · Post by **woodsgirl** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:56 pm

I would guess that the neck needs truss rod adjustment. If you are one of those that can do it yourself, you could fool with it, however, it isn't that expensive to have someone who knows their S%@% do it for you. If every string buzzes on every fret, can you tell where on the neck the buzz is coming from? I think filing the nut grooves is pretty commonly done. There are some threads that discuss it on here. I would say that your neck needs some relief for sure! I am sure this can be fixed. Someone who knows more about it will come along and help you more than I am!!
What about this thick neck your describe? Is it really that bad? Sheesh, if it is, that bites!

ben_brown · Post by **ben_brown** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:34 pm

Well I'm just used to a thinner narrow jazz type neck. I think the nut height would be a major improvement. It buzzes pretty much the same everywhere except for the last fret....nice and clean. I assume it just needs the appropriate relief so the strings can vibrate freely enough to clear the next fret(s) where ever it's fretted.
I wonder if there is some formula for nut height in proportion to the frets. Is there an "absolute lowest height" in relation to the frets that a nut can be filed? There must be some rule of thumb.

bob_atherton · Post by **bob_atherton** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:47 pm

Ben, I am surprised by your findings as I have never had a problem setting up a RIC neck. I have bought a handful on ebay and the state of some of the necks when they get to me is crazy.

I file the nut so that there is about 1 1/2 times the height from nut to fret 1 as there is from fret 1 to fret 2. This makes quite an improvement.

I put just the slightest amount of relief in the neck, almost flat. adjust the bridge for height an tonation so that fret buzz only occurs when I dig in. I play mostly finger style above or behind the bridge pickup, this also probably allows me a good low action.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:00 am

most Ric basses play nice with a flat or almost flat neck ... but no 2 pieces of wood are identical ... most ric basses have the nut cut too high ...

shinynewtoy · Post by **shinynewtoy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:28 am

I know Ric ships new basses with a high nut, since it's easier for players to set them up their way... it's easier to file it down than put it back.

woodsgirl · Post by **woodsgirl** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:16 am

So what about the neck? Is it really that much thicker or just what? Inquiring minds want to know.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 am

I set up a Ric with the nut cut low, the neck flat or almost flat ... and I raise/lower the bridge ... also I prefer strings sets with a .105 E string ... it sounds like you need to raise the bridge or the bass neck has backbow ...

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:21 am

I agree with Jeff. It sounds like your neck has a backbow. I usually set my necks with very little or no relief(around a business card of relief at 7th or 8th fret at the most). I usually file my nut slots down so that the strings clear the first fret by around .020".

I'd recommend learning how to adjust the truss rods yourself. Its really not very difficult, and there isn't much danger of messing it up.

I'm glad that I got over the initial fear of it all!

Before I did, I took my Rick to the "best guitar tech in Chicago" who worked for a major Rick dealer. After not listening to what I asked him to do and trying to BS me into accepting his "set-up"(he did nothing but change the strings), I took the guitar home and learned to set it up myself. My results were a major improvement over his. All it takes is time, patience, and a thimbleful of mechanical aptitude which isn't something that your average guitar tech has.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:04 am

With the nut cut high and the bridge down low for low action, it adds to the chance for fret buzz - the physics of it is all wrong. I would first get the nut cut like others recommended, then with tuned strings check the neck relief (flat or the business card trick if you will), then set the bridge height where you want for string action, and check intonation then action again.

ben_brown · Post by **ben_brown** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:12 am

After looking at it and playing it some more I did notice the neck has just the slightest bit of relief in it and the buzzing isn't as bad as before. Some clean notes but not many. As far as the neck goes Kaia, I measured the circumference at the trailing side of the first fret with a piece of paper and a pencil(under the strings of course). It is exactly 4 17/32" around the neck.

ben_brown · Post by **ben_brown** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:21 am

I'll try .020. By the naked eye it looks to be close to .040 now. I have to get some files tho...where is a good place to pick something up for that? Do they have to be the same size as the string or maybe larger? Don't get me wrong...I used to set up guitars and my "other" basses all the time. Never filed a nut before..... I just didn't want to screw up my Rick.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:55 pm

This is why its crucial to do your own setups.

Personal feel and taste is just something a luthier cant do for you.