How could this be??????

country_gene · Post by **country_gene** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:02 am

I got my first Ric back in May (350v63 Fireglo) in May. I absolutely love this guitar! It was the last Fireglo in stock at MF and they were expecting more in June.

Just for fun, I visited MF and checked availability on the 350 Fireglo. It says these guitars are backordered unti January 2008 - not 2007, but 2008!!! (MF says it is not a typo). I'm sure glad that I got mine when I did.

Does RIC limit production intentionally to keep demand (and price) artificially high?

86kubicki · Post by **86kubicki** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:07 am

Depending on the instrument, a 1-2 year wait is normal. It seems (especially in the last 5 years) that demand has outstripped RIC's production capability which has lead to the current wait time for instruments. John Hall has stated that he won't sacrifice quality just to increase the number of guitars that go out the door.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:19 am

Price artificially high?

RIC operates on a "cost to produce plus reasonable margin" business model. This is unusual in this day of "take the profits and run" businesses.

Anyone who takes the factory tour in August at the 75th celebration, will have a real eye-opener and will understand that, for the quality, beauty, playability, and sheer exclusivity, Rickenbacker instruments are, if anything, underpriced!

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:20 am

And believe me, you wouldn't want it any other way.

country_gene · Post by **country_gene** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:26 am

WOW! I had no idea.......
Thanks for clearing that up.

But couldn't RIC hire more *skilled* craftsman and luthiers. That way they wouldn't have to sacrifice quality and could still produce more guitars?

As a side note........
Have RIC's become more popular in recent years?

bob_the_bass · Post by **bob_the_bass** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:31 am

100% spot on there Paul !!

Bob

bitzerguy · Post by **bitzerguy** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:42 am

I believe supply and demand issues go for luthiers as well, Gene. Simply not enough "skilled" luthiers that can be found in the area, or that are willing to relocate, that would be of reasonable cost. If I'm not mistaken, this is one of the biggest reasons Ric acoustics are not available to order.

Training new luthiers would be very time intensive (and cost intensive by nature), and likely quite susceptible to "corporate raiding".

I totally agree with Paul. In fact Ric should be a "recommended" case study for business students. A most impressive model.

...Dean

squid · Post by **squid** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:54 am

How many of us have dreamt of hitching our careers to Rickenbacker in some way, shape or form? My training doesn't exactly lend itself to luthier work, but I can tell you that there are times when I've dreamt of moving to California so that I can sue the pants off of every Rickenbacker trademark infringer I can find. As for the departing luthiers, maybe I can have a go at Fender for inducing breach of contract?

Of course, working in assembly would be good, too.

The more I hear about the backlog, the more I think that the closing of the acoustic guitar department is inevitable. I say that with some sadness, because I have one on order, but from a business point of view, it just makes so much sense to have that extra production capacity available. I for one would never quarrel with that decision.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:19 am

Paul, will you please stop saying that RIC guitars are underpriced. JH may listen some day and take your advice.

Seriously, you once posted a number around 3 or 4K I seem to remember.

If I woke up tomorrow with amnesia and saw that new Rickenbacker guitars were selling for $2000 or $3000 I would not find that to be strange or out of line.

Did that sentence make sense? You know what I mean. Paul is correct. They are underpriced.

PS: I would LOOOOOOVE to go on the tour, but CA is a little too far away from DC.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:25 am

Hey Mark, I'm in NYC and I'm going. I also trekked there to see NAMM, a five hour flight each way for 48 hours there. This time I'm staying a little longer.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:48 am

Rick acoustics and Rick electrics are two very different animals.

Rick acoustics really need to be built by skilled, trained, experienced luthiers, as they are made the traditional acoustic way, by bending the sides, gluing the braces, adding the front and back, setting the neck, and then doing all the other myriad tasks necessary to produce a playable, quality handbuilt acoustic instrument.

A large portion of the process involved in producing a Rickenbacker electric instrument, whether it's semi-hollow or solid-bodied, however, can be done by semi-skilled labor and by machines.

The cost of living in California is simply too high for RIC to produce an affordable acoustic guitar; to retain true luthiers to build them costs too much.

webhead · Post by **webhead** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:07 am

I think if RIC decided to offer flametops and a custom shop, then their prices would be ripe for an increase. I could see that. Other than that I can't see the reasoning. Yes they may have great luthiers, but I don't think the regular RIC should be tagged with a high cost. It's just my opinion... Plus- I'd like to still continue to buy guitars that are under $1500.

country_gene · Post by **country_gene** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:04 am

Don Corleone - You have stated what I've been thinking, but was afraid to say for fear of offending someone.

Yes - Rics's are fine instruments and I love my 350v63. I also had a 4001 bass years ago, which was another fine instrument. But an 18 month waiting period (at least), "discounted" prices starting at $1,500, not to mention $270 (list) for a "vintage" case? Fender, Gibson, and Gretsch also have some fine instruments starting about $500 less and readily available in stores or by special order (with a waiting period of a few months).

(Country Gene running for cover)

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:13 am

I'm confused here, Don.

I'm not sure what "reasoning" you are referring to. The thrust of this thread has been mere observation, not reasoning of any sort.

I had to re-read all of the posts to make sure I wasn't missing any other post to which you were reacting. And there were none.

Nobody said anything about a RIC price increase. Traditionally, RIC price increases have been driven by an increase in labor and/or material costs, not a recognition that another few dollars could be squeezed out of the purchaser, arbitrarily.

But, nobody said anything in this thread about a price increase.

RIC does not "have great luthiers". The cost of living in SoCal makes it very difficult to hire and keep luthiers, who are critical to maintaining a viable acoustic department. Rather than raise the price of acoustics substantially, things are on hold with that department.

Nobody said anything, either, about tagging the "regular" (electric, non-acoustic?) Rick with high cost.

There are a few new, and a lot of used Ricks in your "under $1500" price range. But wasn't it you who paid over $4K for a Rick acoustic from Japan a couple of months ago? You obviously think yourself that they are quite valuable...

RIC does offer "flametops", BTW. And they don't charge extra for them, either. Like the trees that grew the flamey wood, they pop up randomly here and there in dealer shipments.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:23 am

I think that, as with any manufacturer, the brains at Ric have probably put an incredible amount of work into their pricing to ensure that their product is competitive with other products in the same market place. It is a world class product & seems to be at a similar price, or a smidge cheaper than competitive world class instruments. A new 360 is slightly cheaper than a Les Paul Standard, or most of the Japanese Gretches here in the UK, so IMO, they offer very good value for money.

The massive difference in quality though is in the finish....I can't think of any other manufacturer with a finish that is so resistant to wear & looks as good for so long as a Rickenbacker.