Question about poor tone on 4001

markar · Post by **markar** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:07 pm

New guy here. I've played mostly Fender basses for the last 10 years but picked up a 1980 (according to the serial number) 4001 at an estate sale a few weeks ago.

My question relates to the sound quality, or lack of.
I plugged it to my recording board through my Sansamp and got nothing like I expected from a Rick. Hardly any highs at all. So I put on a set of Rotosounds and it's still the same thing. It's almost as if the tone is rolled all the way off but it's not and the tone control and volume seem to work fine. The wiring all looks good as far as I can tell from the schematic so I'm not sure what it could be. Compared to my Fender through the same setup, it's almost as if you had completely cut out all frequencies above 1k.

Any ideas what it could be? Bad pickup maybe? It appears to have been well taken care but I'm far from an expert so I'm stumped.

loendmaestro · Post by **loendmaestro** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:15 pm

I sorta had the same thing with my 74. I recently had it "lightly restored" & the back p/u was dead. Had it rewound by Lindy Fralin & pulled the dreaded .0047 cap out at the same time and BOOM! What tone.

I'm betting that your back p/u may need to be rewound.

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:35 pm

Check your wiring against the schematic on the RIC site. Cold solder joints or shorts can really screw things up too.

palmann · Post by **palmann** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:39 pm

First question, that came to my mind is: Does it have some of the highs you expect, when playing unplugged?

Gruesse, Pablo

fran4001 · Post by **fran4001** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:43 pm

Another thing to check, get those pickups as close as you can to the strings, without them either physically slapping against the poles, or so close they sound "warble-y". I'd start with the cap left in the circuit to see what kinda highs you get. The treble pickup mod is cool though! Also, part of that Ric growl is low action too. A little buzz goes a long way...

markar · Post by **markar** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:46 pm

Thanks guys. I will check the wiring out completely tomorrow and let you know if I find anything. And are there any checks that can be done with an ohm meter on the pickup? Certain range it should be in or something?

Pablo, that's the strange thing. It sounds great unplugged, especially after I put on the new strings. Better than my Precision in fact. That's why I was so surprised when I first ran it through my board and then through my amp and it sounded almost like it had 10 year old flatwounds on it with the tone turned down.

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:58 pm

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned yet - it might have the older style pickups which have considerably less gain than a P-Bass. The output on my '76 4001 is really low. Lately I've been boosting the signal with my compressor (sounds like a contradiction, I know), or with the preamps in the Moogerfooger pedals. And of course I boost the bass and treble with EQ on my Alembic preamp too.

It sounds like your problem is a little different, but I thought that it might be related...

fran4001 · Post by **fran4001** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:01 pm

Well if my '78 is any indication, on the meter it reads 7.55 for the neck and 8.45 for the bridge, with the .0047 cap bypassed. Seems alot of the other 70s 4001s I've worked on were in that range also. A quick check, non-scientific, and not perfect but close, would entail just plugging a cable in the Standard jack and putting a lead of your multimeter on the tip and the other on the sleeve. Get your neck reading with the pickup selector switch up, and your treble reading with the switch down. And of course, report back!

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:04 pm

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:42 pm

Those aren't "weak" pickups, really; pretty standard for the time period, and all the other people who have them certainly aren't getting the problems Mark is getting . . . also, removing the cap probably wouldn't do anything, because it cuts bass frequencies, not treble, and Mark says he has an ABSENCE of treble.

If a string change does nothing, and the pickups are not dead and read about normal for what they are (i.e. around 7.5-8k), and raising them towards the strings doesn't work, it's GOTTA be a wiring problem or something along those lines. Rics are some of the most trebly basses in existence; if you're not getting treble, there's something wrong.

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:45 pm

Actually, I find that my Fender California Precision Special (passive electronics version) has considerably more treble than any of my Ricks, the same goes for the AV '62 Jazz Bass I used to have.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:04 am

A pickup's impedance has nothing to do with whether it is weak or not, is is more how strong the magnet is. A lower impedance will be more trebly not weaker, will have the same volume just a different sound. The new pickup's test like Jarad's above and are fuller sounding (more bottom and mid than a 70's PU which is usually between 7 and 8K. My 79 4001 is the most trebly Ric I own. It' also nothing to do with how close the PU's are unless they are really far away. On an 80 the treble pickup should be louder than the neck with the cap taken out, with it in, will be much softer and very scooped sounding with no lows. Something must be wrong with the treble PU. Rics don't really have more treble than a Fender they just sound different, you can get a lot of treble out of P and especially J basses.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:29 am

I did not know that. If impedance has nothing to do with pickups being "weak" or "strong", then isn't it false advertisement by all those people who talk about 15K ohm pickups being "hot"? Shouldn't they say "full", or maybe "bassy"? Because "hot" to me implies higher output, not fuller sound.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:32 am

"A pickup's impedance has nothing to do with whether it is weak or not, is is more how strong the magnet is"

well yes and no ... I repaired a 4001 for Steve Cooper the neck pickup was about 1k ohms ... it was very weak and the magnet worked just fine ... also the 4003 pickups are slightly louder than 4001 pickups and they are also fuller and bassier ... and they still have a treble bite ...

when the pickups are closer to the strings they are louder and fuller ... as you back them off they become quieter and the low end drops off as well ...

I suspect the problem with your 4001 is wiring ... have a professional look at it and you might consider replacing all of the pots and capacitors ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:01 pm

A 1 k pickup had to have been shorted out somewhere in the windings,which would have definitely cut output, I mean correctly functioning PU's. You will get more signal with more windings of course but the tone is changed. I think a pickups' magnetic strength has more bearing on it's "hotness" than it's windings but I'm no expert though, I would trust Sérgio as to the definitive answer. I'm sure it's a combination of things.