Lead guitarists playing a rickenbacker 6 string?

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:26 pm

Alex,

While I concede that I am not exactly world famous, I play lead and did record three singles using a 1963 375FG 6 string Rickenbacker.

I also used a 1964 360/12 FG on two of those singles.

Among the many guitars that I use for lead I now use either a Rickenbacker 350 or a 360V64 for many of the more bluesy songs that I play.

You ask why they are not being used by famous lead players? Well it has to do with the "cool" factor. Guitarists tend to be like sheep in some respects. If every cool solo in the world was or had been played on a Rickenbacker then every band in the world would have at least one player with a Rick strung around his/her neck.

The fact is back in the late sixties there was a bit of a sound revolution going on and the guitars at the forefront were not Rickenbacker. Imagine if Hendrix had played a Rick how that might have shaped opinion. Or Imagine if Clapton had strapped on a 360 rather than his trusty SG.

The truth is I can make my 360 closely emulate a Strat or a LP. Yes there are tonal variables that come into play but as noted above they could just as easily been the ones that we were all imprinted with.

All it is going to take is some guitar virtuoso to take a step on the wild side and play one of those oh so memorable solos on a Rick and presto the guitar of choice will become a Rickenbacker.

Could the person who creates that buzz be one of us? I sure hope so. I have waited a long time for a Rickenbacker to be used in such a manner.

Believe me the guitar is capable, but are we?

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:05 pm

I beg to differ that "the guitar is capable." Rickenbacker adheres to some pretty rigid and dated standards in the production of their guitars which, while making them unique, also creates a serious handicap. They do what they do very well, but they do not handle as wide a scope of music as several other brands out there do. That's both good and bad. I think the 360 is one of the most beautiful guitars ever made. I own one. But the skinny neck, tiny frets, and basic ergonomics of the guitar make it very difficult for me to solo on. I even called Rickenbacker about having a 360 with a real neck and real-world fretwire custom made. They were polite but simply replied, "this is what we make. We sell every one we produce. Do you want one?"

The reason there are no legendary solos played on Rics is because their guitars simply do not welcome that style of playing. I know there are a precious few people who can actually use a Ric for unbridled soloing, but the vast majority of players out there just find Rics too difficult to get along with in that arena.

They sure do rythm great though!

pepsican · Post by **pepsican** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:36 pm

ever play a 650 bob?

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:45 pm

Bob,

I don't wish to be argumentative but you sound like you came over from the Fender forum to give us Rickenbacker guitarists a dose of your "reality".

We know what these guitars are capable of... in the right set of hands.

sowhat · Post by **sowhat** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:40 pm

Hands first, instrument second.
(albeit i must admit even in my poor hands, a 650 sounds nice, and actually it's the first guitar which i don't have revulsions in my left hand with after playing - and no, this things starts not because i cannot hold the guitar right.)
A great musician may play a great solo on any guitar, even on a "piece of wood" - just for fun, but does that make the guitar great?.. Personally, i doubt it.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:42 am

a 360 with a real neck and real-world fretwire custom made.

Hi Bob. Can you define 'real neck' and 'real world' for me please?

I have many guitars - Strats, a Tele, a couple of Gibsons, a few others and a decent collection of Ricks. To me they are all 'real world' guitars and have their place and their devotees.

To simply pigeon hole a guitar because of your difficulties in soloing with it doesn't take into account the abilities and preferences of many others and does them a disservice, in my opinion.

Make no mistake - I love my Rickenbackers, as I do all the others, but perception is not always fact. Some Rickenbacker necks feel 'clubby', as does my 50th anniversary AM Deluxe Strat, so what does that say? The 'feel' of my 360v64 Rick is sublime - and it has a 'skinny neck' - which, by the way, is the same width at the nut as most Fenders.

Go figure............

sharkboy · Post by **sharkboy** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:50 am

I do not mean to be disagreeable. I honestly don't understand how Rickenbacker gets a reputation that marginalizes it so. I have owned something like 40 guitars in my life, done many recordings with most of them and wouldn't put anything ahead of them (the Ricks.) I have even recorded my 12 string on distorted bits and weird ambient stuff with great results.

My 650C is the most versatile guitar I have ever played. I would feel comfortable tracking with it in any situation and it is easy, fantastic and beautiful to play live. My 370/6 is only slightly less versatile, as it always sounds like a single coil. I haven't completely warmed up to the sound of the toasters on my 660, and find it to have a little less tonal variation available- but it is growing on me.

Any difficulties in expression of a solo on any of these guitars are purely my own technical playing ones. I suppose that the neck of the 650C is the easiest for me to deal with and coupled with the amazing sounds I can get out of it, that would be my guitar of choice if I didn't know the specific needs of the task at hand. In better hands it could do really anything.

trancedental · Post by **trancedental** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:01 am

Madonna did have a Rick (solidbody) early on in a video of the band she played in before she was signed that I've seen on TV.

After that she concentrated on image & dancing / soft porn & bad vocals / Karaoke music so had no need for bands or playing guitar.

Anyway back to Ricks & leads, my opinion is that certain guitars make you play in a certain way.

I have a Fender Jaguar, a Epi Sheraton (335 type guitar)& a '67 Gretsch CA Country Gentleman & a Rick 360 12 with toasters & a '88 330 6 string.

I'd say if I was doing a song with a lot of lead the Jag & the Sheraton would be the first choice, also the Gretsch.

Maybe it's the necks & frets on the Rickys which are smaller / thinner than the others?

The natural sustain is not as long as the Sheraton or Gretsch but not much difference to the Jaguar although the frets are more prominent on that guitar, after all Fenders don't have much sustain due to the bolt on necks?

So I'd say the reason is the low profile small frets?

A Epiphone Casino is similar to a Rick semi, no all the way through the body neck like a Gibson 335 & ha single coil pickups. Yet I would guess that some people would perfer the Casino for lead with the Gibson type frets?

Has anyone played a Rick semi that has been refreted with Fender / Gibson type frets?

I assume that some of the Rick solidbody models have frets more simlar to the ones mentioned above?

Those models are rare in England though? I've never seen one in the flesh so I'm guessing? LOL!

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:33 am

The 650 series do have jumbo frets and a wider neck. I thought that the 380L may have a similar neck but when I played one recently I found that it was bound and had the standard RIC frets. The 380 neck is wider like a 650 though. If you think a standard Rick is not suitable for leads try a 650 you will be pleasantly surprised. I don't subscribe to the idea that the traditional Ricks aren't suitable for lead work. It is just that I feel a need to have a certain comfort range with the guitar I play. For me that is a contoured body and a wider neck. I loved the sound of my former 360V64 but hated the big body with squared edges along with the narrow neck. But I also felt the same way about the body of a Gibson Lucille and a Heritage 535 I once owned. I still would like to own a semi hollow of some sort I just need to find, or most likely build, the right one.

captsandwich · Post by **captsandwich** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:57 am

My 330 makes me want to play differently than I play my strat. Still, when I'm playing live and I come up to a big distorted solo, I just stomp on the pedal & let the Ric wail. It's actually better than the strat in some respects because it feeds back with more tone & resonance. The strat tends to give a high pitched screech. The only thing I can do on my strat that I can't on the Ric is slam on the whammy bar, so I just get more feedback instead!

My faithful old strat hasn't been played on stage since the Ric was purchased, but I'm still the same guitar player playing the same licks.

westtexasrickenbacker · Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:16 am

Good information from Brian, Bob, etc.

Why was Madonna brought up? That would almost be a detriment to Rickenbacker to be associated with her, despite her fame. All decadent flash, no substance, questionable ability.

Lots of opinions on the virtues of certain models as lead instruments.

I suppose Rickenbacker could come up with a more, how shall I say it, 'Mainstrem neck', but by the same token, if they are selling models as fast as they can make them, why change?

Such beautiful guitars and surprise, surprise... a guitar maker that is still crafting all their guitars in America. I simply wish Clapton, Beck, King, and so forth, would strap one on and go to town on a regular basis.

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:37 am

Alex,

Madonna was on Ed Roman's list of Rickenbacker guitar players.

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:38 pm

Alex,

A while back I conducted a bit of an on-line poll of lead guitarists to find out, who on the forum played a Rickenbacker and what sort of music did they play.

You maybe surprised at the findings.

../7/95731.html"#FFEECC">

westtexasrickenbacker · Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:53 pm

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the link.

Regarding M, I figured Madonna was on someone's list of people owning a Rickenbacker. I simply meant she's not much of an instrumental musician, so her owning one only proves obtaining a Rickenbacker is one of the few classy, tasteful things she's ever done in music.

Hmmm? I guess that is something of a bright light in an otherwise dismal, yet admittedly successful, career. Apologies to M fans.

telebob · Post by **telebob** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:02 pm

Didn't mean to be argumentative, but I'm just one of those guys who believes there is a "right tool" for the job. To me, soloing on a Ric is like using a rip saw when I'm cutting across the grain. Sure, it will work, but a cross cut saw will be a lot easier to use. I know there are a few who actually get along well enough with Rics to solo on them but the fact is, they are a minority.

I've been playing actively for over 30 years and gigging for 25. I built production guitars for a living back in the 80's "Richelieu Electrics, later Black Rock Guitars, they're in the book" and have owned more guitars than I can remember.

I currently have 17 with two Ric-type 360's I'm scratch building nearly complete. To me, these two guitars address the issue of this thread well because I'm building both of them with wider necks and using larger fret wire than what is currently available on a 360 in an effort to make a pair of Ric-type guitars that I can actually solo on. I suppose I could have my 360 re-fretted with a nice 6150 fret wire, but then, well, it wouldn't be a Ric and it wouldn't do what it does so well.

Don't get me wrong. I love my 360, but when it's time to wail, it's not the guitar I reach for and apparently neither do many other players. For me, there are other tools in the shed better suited to the task.