Why did Geddy stop using his 4001?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:50 am

Those first two Peter Collins LPs, 'Power Windows' and 'Hold Your Fire', were both highly produced, kind of up-front 'busy' records and a reflection of the direction they wanted to go in musically at the time. From a bass players standpoint, I found it to be full of great bass licks and a lot of fun music to play, and I happen to like the Wal Bass sound (I own one).

I look at that period as just another phase in their development, and I can also see from the people who enjoy the 'Hemispheres' thru 'Signals' period, it is a bit of a departure, yes.

westtexasrickenbacker · Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:19 am

Good point! Even on different material, Geddy is tremendous.

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:18 pm

I thought Grace Under Pressure was a superb album. All round good musicianship from the boys. The sound was a bit dull, I suppose. For me Rush were at their most exciting when Geddy was using his Rick. I just love 'that' sound. A lot of people talk about Moving Pictures being superb, I beg to differ!! The songs were great. The drums sound fantastic as does the guitar. The bass tone for me was lacking. Damn Fender, see! I've owned a few Fenders and have sold them because I don't like their sound. To me they sound like any bass you can get, and that includes the cheap ones. I've had a £100 Jazz copy and it sounded EXACTLY like the real thing... bloody horrible.
I bought a Rick to get away from the 'generic' bass sound.
Geddy says he changed from the Rick because he was 'bored' with it. Well I'm sorry Mr Lee, but what defined you as a bass player WAS that sound. Your playing is still superb, but the tone is horrible. Each to their own though....

bob_the_bass · Post by **bob_the_bass** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:27 pm

Spot on Mark (IMHO)

keb · Post by **keb** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:11 am

Guys, you're never gonna tear that Jazz out of Geddy's hands. He's been saying in interviews since 1980, long long long before any endorsed Fender signature model, how much he loves that bass and how lucky he was to find it in a pawn shop for cheap. He was fated to play that very bass. That bass was meant for him and he was meant for that bass.

I love his Rick tone as much as anyone (I am one of many untold numbers of bassists who was heavily inspired by his monster Exit Stage Left tone) but I can't hate the guy for finding something that works for him personally as an artist. He's gotta do his own thing.

I rather like his Jazz tone, actually. He still very definitely sounds like Geddy Lee to me.

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:20 pm

Rush is, to me, main stream classic rock. Officially, I think they are labeled as progressive. I wouldn't disagree with that, either.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:28 pm

Progressive rock, yes. Classic rock, yes. Mainstream, hardly. Well, not in the USA . . . I rarely hear them on the radio, and when I do, it's either "Limelight", "Spirit of Radio", or "Fly By Night". Very few people I've met even know of them, much less any of their songs. Maybe I just live in the wrong place . . . way too many Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynyrd fans here . . .

scottpro1969 · Post by **scottpro1969** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:12 pm

I think you'd be surprised at how many Rush fans are out there, everywhere. I don't know for sure but my guess is that they sell out every arena that they play when they tour. Or at least come close. They don't play small arenas. I've seen them every tour since Signals and it's always been full.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:31 pm

I saw them twice - "A Farewell To Kings" and "Hemispheres" tours. Both times they played 1,500 seat halls.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:22 am

Back in the days of 'Kings', '2112' and 'Hemispheres' they weren't playing very big halls, right. The Warner Theatre in D.C. holds something like 2-3000 people, and that's where they played back then. When they would play a big arena, there was usually someone else on the bill too, like Aerosmith or KISS.

I have seen them 15 or 16 times in the last 25 years, and the smallest hall I went to held 10,000 people. Most of the time the arenas were 17-18,000 seat venues. Always sold out, or very nearly sold out.

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:24 am

I know Geddy won't go back to his Rick and that he loves the Jazz, but the point I was making was that, the Rick sound got Rush where they are today because the bass tone was part of the overall sound. I think the 'progressive rock' label doesn't really apply to Rush. A lot of prog is arty-farty. I don't think Rush fall into that category. Their music IS progressive, but a bit more intelligent than the 'let's stick loads of weird stuff together' school of prog.
The Jazz does have a mellower tone. What annoys me is the Sansamp distortion that is going on in there. It's very artificial. Geddy is trying to emulate the Rickenbacker sound... Whey not use the real thing!!!
As I said, each to their own...

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:41 pm

Progressive rock doesn't have to be "arty-farty" as you put it . . . King Crimson is progressive, and they're certainly not "arty-farty" . . . same with bands like Porcupine Tree and Primus and such: all prog, but not all the same either. Rush was unique among progressive rockers (at least, initially) in that they took the whole prog ethic (intricacy, complexity, not giving a rat's *** about convention, etc.) with the basic driving, hard rock style of the time; indeed, they started out as basically a mediocre imitation of Led Zeppelin. Then Neil Peart came along, and the rest is history. In combining prog with hard rock, they basically invented prog metal, abandoned it for "Power Windows" through "Roll the Bones", and then came back to it on "Counterparts". Definitely not the same as other prog bands, but once again, prog is a very varied genre.

But yeah, I liked the jazz tone when it was recorded on "Moving Pictures" and "Signals" . . . not so much of a fan of it now, being incredibly distorted. Still a good sound, but not anywhere near the greatness of the Ric.

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:51 pm

The bass tone on Rush's recordings is what defines the band completely. I remember when I was younger and in the car with my mom. A Rush song was on. I asked what song it was and she said it was Rush. I said I knew that, because of the bass sound. The song turned out to be Time Stand Still.

The Rick sound that Geddy got has got to be the holy grail of bass sounds. His jazz bass sounds great, not like the typical jazz sound I was used to hearing, but after Rush In Rio it started to **** me off. Too much high end buzz, the low end was muddy and the mids were hardly there at all. WTF is wrong with this man, going on stage every day on a summer tour with a horrific sounding bass.

The Jazz does sound amazing on Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals and Counterparts, but other than that.. blah.

Hell, if he wants the Rick sound use a Rick, or if he doesn't like the binding, pickups, whatever.. go back to the P bass he turned into the tear drop. The bass from the first album. I thought for the longest time that was a 4001. Of course it's a P with rotosounds. Well he got damn close, and considering on the 2112 tour he used that bass from time to time (It may be the bass on By-Tor on ATWAS, I'm not sure) and he ran it in stereo.

His live sound I believe is the fact that he uses the stereo jack. Sets each pickup to it's own thing and put them together. Just a masterful sound.

Rag on the Wal bass all you want. That bass is number 2 on my bass sound list. The high end is amazing, the lows are there if you use thicker strings (Unlike Geddy and his light gauge strings) and mess with the controls. The worst sound he had IMHO was the Steinberger. It's a cool compact shape, and I wouldn't mind owning one, but listen to YYZ on the Grace Under Pressure DVD/live album. That's got to be the wimpiest bass sound ever.

geddeeee · Post by **geddeeee** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:41 pm

Yeah the bass onn YYZ off GUP live is pretty wimpy. I DO like the bass tone on Vital Signs though, sounds nearly like a Rick. Not bad for a Steinberger!
On the point of prog rock, I think Rush built on their 'hard rock' sound and brought us all a new coherent type of prog rock. I'm still not keen on the Moving Pictures bass tone. Having owned a Jazz bass, I'm not a fan. My bass playing definitely improved when I got a Rick...

westtexasrickenbacker · Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:54 am

Well, I guess it's human nature to want your music and instruments to change as you get older. I can understand that completely, as many other bands have done exactly the same thing. From the outside looking in, as merely a fan though, I think RUSH's hottest period was with Geddy playing a 4001.

He's such a great bass player. For me, his best time was in the late 70's and early 80's.. and we all know what the primary axe was during that era

The sound was great and also, composers seem to have a limited time when they are creatively at their best. I think they hit their peak long ago and maybe that's why I don't like Geddy's current bass sounds as well. With great respect, I don't think post-'85 material is as good, so it would follow that his bass work wouldn't appeal to my 'old' ears as much.