Hi All!
This is my first post on this forum and I do appreciate all the helpful hints that has been posted by Rickenbacker owners everywhere. I used to have a '75 Rick 4001 back in the early eighties. A beautiful thing that I had to let go of in the early nineties to buy a P-bass. My only complaint about that bass was tat the output of the "E" string was never as loud as the other strings. Fast forward to May 30 2003, and I finally took delivery of my new 2003 4003 Fireglow bass. Guess what? Deja-Vu. The "E" string still lacks the volume of the other strings. Tried adjusting the pickup, giving the bass side a boost. Still not enough. What is the problem here? Is the nut choking the "E" string? Is the pick-up wound in a way I can't comprehend? I have read on the forum about general loss of volume when changing from one pick-up to the other, but nothing like this. It's hard for me to believe that the instrument was shipped from the factory like this without someone noticing. I tried tracking with it today in the studio and the problem was magnified further. Any help on this would be wonderful! Good to be part of the club again!
Patrik
E string low output
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Welcome in, Patrik.
Does the E sound weak from both pickups?
If not, the one with a weak E is problematic and you should be able to send it back to RIC for inspection and a replacement.
If yes, than you've likely got a dead E string from the factory. Put on a new set or a new E of your favorite brand and see if the problem is solved.
Is the E weaker than the others when played unplugged?
Bear in mind that the low frequencies of the E (the main body of its sound) don't get heard as well as the mids and highs of the other 3. (Think of the Fletcher-Munsunn curve in which the lows don't get heard as much by the human ears in a low volume.)
If the E sounds alright unplugged and RIC tells you the pickups are OK, then we can only hope for RIC to make pickups with height-adjustable polepieces again like in the '70s soon, which I doubt will ever happen.
You know, as a music producer, the polepieces of a pickup are just like 4 mics that you put in front of a 4-member singing group. The singer with less voice volume should have his/her mic closer ,before overwhelming proximity effects take place, where as the louder ones need their mics not as close.
Same thing with pickups. Polepieces too far from the strings yield weak PU outputs. Too close, magnetic pulls (causing shortened sustain and false harmonics) and unpleasing distortion (like the diaphram of a mic being pushed beyond its SPL limit) will come your way.
And as you know too, string-to-string volume balance can be very different from brand to brand. So how are we supposed to get by with polepieces that are not height adjustable and pickups that can only be adjusted in a "this side up or that side down" manner? What will happen if you switch to another brand of strings? You can only hope that your pickups are "friendly and co-operative' with the new set.
Today's music recording equipment can really detect the sonic imperfections of an instrument. Compressors and EQs can only help so much. The shortcomings won't dissapear even when doctored by state of the arts audio gears.
I really hope RIC can use height adjustable polepieces again, including toasters that can be adjusted at the bottom. Yes, A and D strings can sound weaker than E and G because the 6 polepieces of a toaster form a straight line while the A and D strings are further from the pickups. No I'm not over-picky. My ears can hear the A and D being weaker through my 2002 reissue 7.4 k toaster.
Despite the polepieces' problems, I'll still keep on buying Rickenbacker basses!!! Just irresistable...
And good luck to you getting rid of the problem.
Does the E sound weak from both pickups?
If not, the one with a weak E is problematic and you should be able to send it back to RIC for inspection and a replacement.
If yes, than you've likely got a dead E string from the factory. Put on a new set or a new E of your favorite brand and see if the problem is solved.
Is the E weaker than the others when played unplugged?
Bear in mind that the low frequencies of the E (the main body of its sound) don't get heard as well as the mids and highs of the other 3. (Think of the Fletcher-Munsunn curve in which the lows don't get heard as much by the human ears in a low volume.)
If the E sounds alright unplugged and RIC tells you the pickups are OK, then we can only hope for RIC to make pickups with height-adjustable polepieces again like in the '70s soon, which I doubt will ever happen.
You know, as a music producer, the polepieces of a pickup are just like 4 mics that you put in front of a 4-member singing group. The singer with less voice volume should have his/her mic closer ,before overwhelming proximity effects take place, where as the louder ones need their mics not as close.
Same thing with pickups. Polepieces too far from the strings yield weak PU outputs. Too close, magnetic pulls (causing shortened sustain and false harmonics) and unpleasing distortion (like the diaphram of a mic being pushed beyond its SPL limit) will come your way.
And as you know too, string-to-string volume balance can be very different from brand to brand. So how are we supposed to get by with polepieces that are not height adjustable and pickups that can only be adjusted in a "this side up or that side down" manner? What will happen if you switch to another brand of strings? You can only hope that your pickups are "friendly and co-operative' with the new set.
Today's music recording equipment can really detect the sonic imperfections of an instrument. Compressors and EQs can only help so much. The shortcomings won't dissapear even when doctored by state of the arts audio gears.
I really hope RIC can use height adjustable polepieces again, including toasters that can be adjusted at the bottom. Yes, A and D strings can sound weaker than E and G because the 6 polepieces of a toaster form a straight line while the A and D strings are further from the pickups. No I'm not over-picky. My ears can hear the A and D being weaker through my 2002 reissue 7.4 k toaster.
Despite the polepieces' problems, I'll still keep on buying Rickenbacker basses!!! Just irresistable...
And good luck to you getting rid of the problem.
Hi Patrik, I've never had the problem with a Rickenbacker, but I'll take a stab at it. I know you're an experienced producer and guitarist so I apologize if some of these questions seem too basic:
Is the problem there with all three selector switch positions? If so, it's almost surely not the pickups.
Are you playing through a compressor/limiter? If so, is the problem still there with it turned off?
Is it possible that that one or both of the pickups is too high on the E side, or that the string height is too low? The string being too close to the polepiece can also damp response.
Have you tried it with another E string (of a different brand)? How about recording the A string level, then moving the A over to the E slot and rerecording and comparing output levels?
Finally, is the problem at every fret position, or only some? If it's not at every fret position, then it may be a resonance damping at certain frequencies. If so, try a very slight tweak of the bass side truss rod, no more than 1/12 turn either way, and see if that helps.
Please let us know. Hopefully it's just due to a dead string or a little neck movement.
Is the problem there with all three selector switch positions? If so, it's almost surely not the pickups.
Are you playing through a compressor/limiter? If so, is the problem still there with it turned off?
Is it possible that that one or both of the pickups is too high on the E side, or that the string height is too low? The string being too close to the polepiece can also damp response.
Have you tried it with another E string (of a different brand)? How about recording the A string level, then moving the A over to the E slot and rerecording and comparing output levels?
Finally, is the problem at every fret position, or only some? If it's not at every fret position, then it may be a resonance damping at certain frequencies. If so, try a very slight tweak of the bass side truss rod, no more than 1/12 turn either way, and see if that helps.
Please let us know. Hopefully it's just due to a dead string or a little neck movement.
Hi Patrik - I just recently bought a 4003, about a month ago, and had the same problem. It was only on the bridge pickup, however, and was also only noticeable when using a pick. When picked, the other strings had that bright 'tang' that made them louder than the E string. I was able to pretty much even it out by lowering the bridge pickup (since I also had significantly more volume coming from the bridge), and then bringing the 'E' side of the pickup back up a bit. After reading the previous posts, I'm starting to wonder if maybe my string is dead - I've been playing for 5 years or so, and since 3 of those were with the same strings that were on my original bass, I haven't had enough experience with strings to know a dead one. It seems to sound fine but just isn't as bright with a pick.
Like I say, I pretty much solved my problem - I can't say mine is perfectly fixed because I just turned the screws until I got something that's "good enough for punk rock". I'll have to listen a little more scientifically when I get home tonight. So I wonder: does your E string have lower volume on both pickups? With pick and fingers? Same basic questions the others have asked, but I just wanted to add in my experience.
Hope things work out,
Nick
Like I say, I pretty much solved my problem - I can't say mine is perfectly fixed because I just turned the screws until I got something that's "good enough for punk rock". I'll have to listen a little more scientifically when I get home tonight. So I wonder: does your E string have lower volume on both pickups? With pick and fingers? Same basic questions the others have asked, but I just wanted to add in my experience.
Hope things work out,
Nick
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ptdarkone
Hi!
Thanks everyone for all the helpful hints! I swapped out the factory strings for GHS Boomers of the same gauge and this seems to have helped my problem a little bit. Nick; You are totally right about how the problem gets worse when you play with a pick instead of fingers. Yes; It would be nice if the Ricks had adjustable pole pieces. Does anyone know what year they stopped? The low output problem on the "E" string seems to be the worst on the first 4 or 5 frets. It tends to even out the further up the neck you go. Saw a '73 4001 Jetglo today and compared it to my 4003. The 4001 was more quiet but very even across the fretboard. I'll keep experimenteing with the tips given on this forum. Thanks again to allwho responded!
Patrik
Thanks everyone for all the helpful hints! I swapped out the factory strings for GHS Boomers of the same gauge and this seems to have helped my problem a little bit. Nick; You are totally right about how the problem gets worse when you play with a pick instead of fingers. Yes; It would be nice if the Ricks had adjustable pole pieces. Does anyone know what year they stopped? The low output problem on the "E" string seems to be the worst on the first 4 or 5 frets. It tends to even out the further up the neck you go. Saw a '73 4001 Jetglo today and compared it to my 4003. The 4001 was more quiet but very even across the fretboard. I'll keep experimenteing with the tips given on this forum. Thanks again to allwho responded!
Patrik
Hi Patric
I had a 75 4001 with the same problem, just about everyone here had a go at it a few months ago, the thread is probably still here if you scroll down. I've never had that problem with a 4003 though, but that was one of the common complaints with 4001's years ago. I sold the bass before I actually solved the problem, what did solve it but really was not a legitimate fix was removing the rubber washer under the bass side of the pickup which allowed the pickup to sit very close to the string, I think perhaps the pickup was either bad or the button on the pickup was too low, different basses seem to have different pickup button heights. Unlike Nick I have never had a treble pickup like that, it was always the bass pickup, which resulted in a hollow tone for the open E and also a little way up the neck, the higher up the neck you go, obviously the string gets closer to the button, which allows the string to get louder. The bass was perfect in all other aspects.
I had a 75 4001 with the same problem, just about everyone here had a go at it a few months ago, the thread is probably still here if you scroll down. I've never had that problem with a 4003 though, but that was one of the common complaints with 4001's years ago. I sold the bass before I actually solved the problem, what did solve it but really was not a legitimate fix was removing the rubber washer under the bass side of the pickup which allowed the pickup to sit very close to the string, I think perhaps the pickup was either bad or the button on the pickup was too low, different basses seem to have different pickup button heights. Unlike Nick I have never had a treble pickup like that, it was always the bass pickup, which resulted in a hollow tone for the open E and also a little way up the neck, the higher up the neck you go, obviously the string gets closer to the button, which allows the string to get louder. The bass was perfect in all other aspects.
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ptdarkone
Hello Again!
Here's something that may help all of you out there that had my problem. I called up tech support at Rickenbacker. They were incredibly friendly. They suggested that I should make a tiny truss rod adjustment on the bass side. I tried a minute counter clockwise turn and when I plugged the bass back in, I was blown away! Totally even from string to string, up and down the neck. Can Fender and Gibson say that they have that "feels like family" tech support? I don't know, but the Rickenbacker folks could teach the folks at Digidesign a thing or two. Thanks so much for all the help! I love my 4003!
Patrik
Here's something that may help all of you out there that had my problem. I called up tech support at Rickenbacker. They were incredibly friendly. They suggested that I should make a tiny truss rod adjustment on the bass side. I tried a minute counter clockwise turn and when I plugged the bass back in, I was blown away! Totally even from string to string, up and down the neck. Can Fender and Gibson say that they have that "feels like family" tech support? I don't know, but the Rickenbacker folks could teach the folks at Digidesign a thing or two. Thanks so much for all the help! I love my 4003!
Patrik
Bass guitarists have problems with "standing waves" when practicing in small rooms like at home. It causes horrendous peaks and dips in your response below 100 Hz, which is your E string between the nut and 16th fret or thereabouts. It varies tremendously where it is measured in the room. It's just a fact of physics that is mathematically defined by the dimensions of your listening room. The larger the room, the lower the frequency it occurs at. A small cube shaped room is the worst possibe scenario, like my computer den, which has horrendous bass quality. Every audiophile with speakers that have extremely low frequency response has battled this demon. I have a peak at around 63 Hz in my living room, with suckouts above and below that. Take your bass amp outside away from reflecting walls to get a TRUE reading on what your guitar/amp combination is really doing. I once adjusted my pickup heights only to find that I adjusted it to my ROOM, rather than to my amp. It sounded worse than before in another room. A graphic equalizer can help, but the best cure is a shoebox shaped room (like the old concert halls) with acoustic treatment such as sound absorbing materials in strategic locations. Plush overstuffed furniture in every corner really helps, and there are things called bass traps (big cylinders filled with damping material) that work even better, if you can tolerate the visual effect and have the room and money. Guitarists suffer a lot less from this problem because their open E string is 82 Hz and they barely get into standing wave territory except in very small rooms. The best place to put a bass amp is usually in a room corner, which is termed a "pressure zone", and you will get 9 dB of bass boost in the lowest notes due to the corner horn effect. A practice amp for home use needs about 6-9dB less output on the open E string in a free field (outside in the open) environment to compensate for room boost when it is brought inside a typical home environment. A practice amp optimized for small rooms will sound thin in a large room due to lack of room boost. These are some things to consider when adjusting those pickups on basses.
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ptdarkone
Patrik,welcome...I've have the same problem with my 82 4001(which is now retired)but never had that problem with my 2002 4003..but I know how frustrating it is.I tried EVERYTHING to fix it and it just seemed to remain lower(in volume)than the other 3 strings..I've come to the conclusion that it must be some kind of psycho-acoustic thing..and I'm the only one who really hears a difference so I just let it be..and enjoyed that bass for many years..I must say,the new Ric p\u's are awsome... twice as hot as the old ones but,still all Rickenbacker..hope you fix your problem..