That cap mod--pls clarify

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:06 pm

Are the "U"s of the modern reissue horseshoes actually plated plastic parts that don't do the jobs of magnets?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:35 am

If I remember correctly the new horseshoe pickup U's are non-magnetized steel with chrome plating ... they have the look and feel of the original but they have a stronger alinico magnet and probably more windings ... probably 8 to 11 ohms ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:52 am

I was just out playing a little last night with my 4003s5 .... the bridge pickup on that bass is a whopping 16 ohms ... it is truly thunderous ...

The old Ric bass pickups are too jangley for me ... that old 60's tone is cool for a Byrds like 12 string sound ... but I want my bass thunderous ... I like attack in the bass, mid and treble range.

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 8:51 am

Boy, an 8, 11, or 16 ohm pickup would be rather remarkable. Think K ohms, guys!

Also, there would nothing more useless than a plastic horseshoe. Where DOES this stuff come from?

Finally, the measured gauss level of a vintage horseshoe pickup might be low compared to a modern Hi Gain but the horseshoe is also sensitive to string motion in all planes, which results in higher sensitivity. Traditional under-string magnet pickups only read motion in one axis, more or less, even though the string is moving in a helix.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:33 am

Sorry ... I assumed everybody new I meant k ohms ... I used too much shorthand ...

dano · Post by **dano** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:21 pm

It's amazing how this thread has taken on a life of it's own! A cap mod question leads to an in depth discussion on horseshoes. So now I can throw in my two cents worth on both subjects and inject a new topic, right? Only at the Ric forum! I removed the cap on my '79. No regrets. It gives the bass a more modern sound somewhat like the 4003. If this is what your looking for then by all means bypass the .0047 cap. If you want the vintage sound that Ric is famous for then leave it in. A switch will give you even more flexability. The horseshoes on my v63 are metal. I love the sound of the re-issue. Not sure if the shoes are a working part of the pickup like the originals were but it sounds great none the less. Ok, back to the cap mod question. For those of us that have decided to remove the cap from our 4001's would it make sense to replace the original pickup with a current high gain? Would there be a significant difference between the two? Also, how does the current high gain sound with a toaster? Paul, maybe you can shed some light on this since I know Annie has this setup.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:30 pm

The bridge hi gain on my 91' 4003 is the most aggresivly loud pickup i have ever heard. To balance the output between it and the neck pickup, it must be lowered until The base nearly falls of from the adjustment screws. Of course i leave it in "proper" position - i dont really care about balancing the two pickups

If I remember correctly, Jeff Rath was commenting in another thread on his 4003s5's pickups as having a "thunderous attack" ......or something. Damn right - the modern ricks have the most powerful bass sound i have ever heard.

wints · Post by **wints** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:48 pm

My 64 horseshoe still sounds good, but as discussed in another thread, would probably benefit considerably from a recharge..not with an arc welder though... It runs 7.4...(K), and blends wonderfully with the toaster. An all round more subtle/sweeter sound (to my ears) than the later horseshoes,(and most other treble p/ups) that wound higher (and working differently as JH described) can overpower the bass p/up...But from this original, one can still get that Squire grunt, or that wonderful soft "whoo" on the higher notes..I love the sound of the 4001 above the 12th. Of course, this is all down to individual ear, and the great thing about these basses are the many variations of sound that can be produced throughout the different periods of production. Great pic Jeff, don,t see many of the originals these days. My 64 has a black bobbin with 4 polepieces. The green bobbin/screw polepieces are the same as my 68, which is the transistional hi gain, and it,s output is less than the horseshoe. I,d post a pic, but my jpegs are larger than the limit...If anyone can help, I,ll send them to your e mail and you can forward them to post...

weemac · Post by **weemac** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:24 pm

Andrew, The Horseshoes can be re-gaused by simply waving a ceramic bar magnet (taken from cheap strat-copy pickups) in the right (secret) way over the side of the horseshoe. Once the method is practiced. It is quite easy to bring old horeshoes back to life.
A warning though, you get wrong before you get it right.
I agree with you about the subtle/sweetness of the old ones too!

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:44 pm

Got the reply from Guitar Jones.
--------------------------------------------
Q:The Rickenbacker control cavity is only 1 1/32" (=2.4 cm) deep. Is the VPP3 short enough to fit into it?

A:It is too short, it must have 30mm deep at least.
--------------------------------------------
Too bad...

Dan, the original modern high gain treble pickup on Annie ('98 4003 FG) sure is loud and growling. It's quite mid-rangey (in a good way) to my ears. Since the 7.4k toaster (whose polepieces are of the long type, protruding out of the bottom for 1 cm or 13/32", thus louder than those with short polepieces) has some V-shaped frequency response (aka. Hi-Fi), it compliments well the modern HG treble PU. You can obtain the 2 sonic extremes (hi-fi with the toaster, lo-fi with the treble PU) with the toggle up or down, or blend them (toaster>treble PU, or treble PU>toaster) to taste with the toggle set to middle position.

Bear in mind that the modern HG treble PU is always louder than the reissue toaster when their distances from the strings are the same. Either lower the treble PU or raise the toaster to its maximum height by removing the little black rubber grommets will help with obtaining level balance between the two.

I'm however not totally happy with the stock RIC pickups because they don't have adjustable polepieces. The A and D strings are not as loud as the other two with the toaster because the polepieces form a straight line while the strings follow the fingerboard radius. The E and D strings don't sound as loud as the A and G with the HG treble PU whose polepieces can't be adjusted either.

As a matter of fact, the 2 pickups on Annie now are not RIC originals. Sergio was kind enough to make me a toaster (I provided the cover) and a treble PU with adjustable polepieces. The toaster's polepieces are adjusted from the bottom. Now the string level balance is just perfect with both of Annie's pickups.

Sergio's Toaster

Sergio's treble PU

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:49 pm

Andrew,
Send your jpegs to [email protected].
I'll be glad to post them for you.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:21 pm

I got a question for you all: Has anyone noticed a distinct difference from the sound of an early 70's treble high gain with a late 70's treble high gain? I have and still own several of both. The late 70's basses treble pickups I own have more bass than the early 70's, I have bypassed the cap on the early ones and they sound similar to a late one bypassed. What I am trying to lead up to is that it seems that the caps from the early to mid seventies cut out much more bass than do the later ones. I have a 72 (transitional) and had a 75 and the treble pickups sounded identical, and I have both a 78 and a 79 and they are very similar. But comparing my 72 to either of the other later ones the sound is very different, with the 72 all you get is sharp treble, and the caps ages are not that dissimilar (difference of only 6 and 7 years) that you could say the values have changed dramatically from each other. If this post seems a little incoherant, it's because I left Peru 23 hours ago, am back in Mass. and haven't stopped yet.

wints · Post by **wints** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:30 am

Paul, thanks...I,ll get them sent out...

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:10 am

Here's Andrew's Horseshoe.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:35 am

Andrew,
This is the '64, right?
Look at the baseplate!
First time I see square ends like those.
Are baseplates made in the '60s all like that?

By the way, beautiful '68 4001 of yours!
Checkered binding and the attractive old style long crushed pearl inlays.

(Photo courtesy of Andrew)

I took the liberty of posting it. Hope it's OK by you, Andrew.