Yep!
Just listen to the beginning of "It's Only a Northern Song" written by Carl Harry-Song (this track actually saw it's basic tracks laid down during the making of Pepper since it was fully intended as a Pepper track!)
So this Harry-Song was eventually completed and used for the "Yellow Submarine" project, a project (as story has it) "brought the Beatles no joy" and one of which they had minimal involvement with.
The "new" songs the Fabs gave away for this project were considered even by them to be
mainly "throwaways" and third rate left over-stuff
they didn't feel was good enough for anything else.
Even so. ...
A completed "It's only a Northern Song" was given by them for this project and with that opening beginning with Lennon shouting, "Sue your mother!" The guitar work is amazingly "Hendrix-like."
But I'm not to even close to being a Hendrix fan.
I always think of him as the "world's most gimmicky guitarist", verses the most skilled.
Setting guitars on fire never made one great at anything except pure stoner gross stupidity.
Just cheap show for the masses. ...
John as a guitarist?
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studiotwosession
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I like the Experience. Noel's ex is one of my neighbors and I love listening to her stories.
They were definitely a good band and his best songs are what made him great. The guitar slinging was the least important ingredient.
There are hundreds of bands since that have had guitar players of amazing ability but no good tunes or chem between the players.
They were definitely a good band and his best songs are what made him great. The guitar slinging was the least important ingredient.
There are hundreds of bands since that have had guitar players of amazing ability but no good tunes or chem between the players.
This is off the record
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studiotwosession
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".... with musicians who are "schooled" but are lost without a piece of music in front of them. "
Yup, this is very true. I have a friend who is first flute in a nationally recognized orchestra (and her sister is 1st flute in another one). One day I broke out some old Beatle song books and tried to play some guitar/flute oldies. She could and can sight-read ANYTHING you put in front of her but she simply was incapable of playing along with the tune if the sheet music was not in front of her. The little black dots were all she knew.
Just goes to show that the general theme of this thread... that super duper technical ability is not the be-all and end-all... is very true.
In fact, one of the things that turned me off to a lot of rock'n'roll in the 70s was the advent of super-long self-indulgent solos (that often would use heavy distortion in an attempt to disguise the boringness of it all) whose main goal seemed to be to show us how well they knew scales and how fast their little finger could go. To hell with the song, just watch ME! (they seemed to be saying).... Poppycock. To me, BB King could play that ONE perfect note that would put all those wild lightning fast solos in the dumpster.
IMveryHO, of course.
And as for the Beatles, I think that most of us would agree that one of their strengths is that they chose to NOT go in for the "long jam" approach. For them, the song was everything, and for the most part they made a conscious effort to contain their enormous talents within the context of a well structured, melodic, inventive (and commercially successful) format.
Yup, this is very true. I have a friend who is first flute in a nationally recognized orchestra (and her sister is 1st flute in another one). One day I broke out some old Beatle song books and tried to play some guitar/flute oldies. She could and can sight-read ANYTHING you put in front of her but she simply was incapable of playing along with the tune if the sheet music was not in front of her. The little black dots were all she knew.
Just goes to show that the general theme of this thread... that super duper technical ability is not the be-all and end-all... is very true.
In fact, one of the things that turned me off to a lot of rock'n'roll in the 70s was the advent of super-long self-indulgent solos (that often would use heavy distortion in an attempt to disguise the boringness of it all) whose main goal seemed to be to show us how well they knew scales and how fast their little finger could go. To hell with the song, just watch ME! (they seemed to be saying).... Poppycock. To me, BB King could play that ONE perfect note that would put all those wild lightning fast solos in the dumpster.
IMveryHO, of course.
And as for the Beatles, I think that most of us would agree that one of their strengths is that they chose to NOT go in for the "long jam" approach. For them, the song was everything, and for the most part they made a conscious effort to contain their enormous talents within the context of a well structured, melodic, inventive (and commercially successful) format.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
QUOTE:
"And as for the Beatles, I think that most of us would agree that one of their strengths is that they chose to NOT go in for the "long jam" approach. For them, the song was everything, and for the most part they made a conscious effort to contain their enormous talents within the context of a well structured, melodic, inventive (and commercially successful) format".
END QUOTE
Well put!
Frankly (with some rare but very notable exceptions) I DEPLORED the entire 1970's music wise.
To my ears that deplorable decade consisted of mainly self-indugent **** that sounds even worse today then when it was first released.
(I HATE of that acoustic "touchy feely" interspective cry me a river **** ala Gordon Lightfoot, James Taylor, etc.)
Also, in just about ever other aspect the 1970's sucked.
Quality of manufactured goods on a global basis sunk to new lows. And yes that fully extends also into the world of guitars and amps!
Look what happened to Fender after the CBS takeover?
In fact Rickenbacker was one of the very few guitar manufactures in the world who kept quality standards consistently high and continued to make very superior instruments.
Look (if you dare!) at American automobiles from the 1970's. Flat butt ugly monstrousties, extremely poorly engineered, etc.
And Oh! How about all of that green shag carpeting and polyester leisure suits?
Real "cat's pajamas", eh?
One decade I'd love to forget.
aslo in just about ever pother
"And as for the Beatles, I think that most of us would agree that one of their strengths is that they chose to NOT go in for the "long jam" approach. For them, the song was everything, and for the most part they made a conscious effort to contain their enormous talents within the context of a well structured, melodic, inventive (and commercially successful) format".
END QUOTE
Well put!
Frankly (with some rare but very notable exceptions) I DEPLORED the entire 1970's music wise.
To my ears that deplorable decade consisted of mainly self-indugent **** that sounds even worse today then when it was first released.
(I HATE of that acoustic "touchy feely" interspective cry me a river **** ala Gordon Lightfoot, James Taylor, etc.)
Also, in just about ever other aspect the 1970's sucked.
Quality of manufactured goods on a global basis sunk to new lows. And yes that fully extends also into the world of guitars and amps!
Look what happened to Fender after the CBS takeover?
In fact Rickenbacker was one of the very few guitar manufactures in the world who kept quality standards consistently high and continued to make very superior instruments.
Look (if you dare!) at American automobiles from the 1970's. Flat butt ugly monstrousties, extremely poorly engineered, etc.
And Oh! How about all of that green shag carpeting and polyester leisure suits?
Real "cat's pajamas", eh?
One decade I'd love to forget.
aslo in just about ever pother
"Your Greatest Power is the Power to Choose"
I quite enjoyed the 70's. But yes David given that we have the ability to now look back with 20/20 vision many things were pretentious, flashy and silly and I am not just referring to music.
But what about the good things that were produced in that era? Are there none that can escape your seemingly undue criticism?
What about the likes of The Marshall Tucker Band, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Atlanta Rhythm Section, Duane Allman, Rick Derringer, Alvin Lee, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, The Band, Edgar Winter, Johnny Winter, Rory Gallagher, Led Zeppelin, BB King, Leslie West, Frank Zappa, Taj Mahal, Rush, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Vanilla Fudge, Deep Purple just to name a very few. Are we just going to consign these artists to some 70's scrap heap never to be heard from again?
For example, The Atlanta Rhythm Section produced 9 albums in the 70's, BB King produced 5 albums, Taj Mahal produced 4. Do we just ignore those and relegate them to being insignificant? Some of these artists were most productive in the 70's and enjoyed huge success. I understand that Emerson Lake and Palmer sold over 30 million records during the time in question.
I am just curious David how we ought to perceive and perhaps reconcile the 70's through your eyes and ears?
But what about the good things that were produced in that era? Are there none that can escape your seemingly undue criticism?
What about the likes of The Marshall Tucker Band, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Atlanta Rhythm Section, Duane Allman, Rick Derringer, Alvin Lee, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, The Band, Edgar Winter, Johnny Winter, Rory Gallagher, Led Zeppelin, BB King, Leslie West, Frank Zappa, Taj Mahal, Rush, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Vanilla Fudge, Deep Purple just to name a very few. Are we just going to consign these artists to some 70's scrap heap never to be heard from again?
For example, The Atlanta Rhythm Section produced 9 albums in the 70's, BB King produced 5 albums, Taj Mahal produced 4. Do we just ignore those and relegate them to being insignificant? Some of these artists were most productive in the 70's and enjoyed huge success. I understand that Emerson Lake and Palmer sold over 30 million records during the time in question.
I am just curious David how we ought to perceive and perhaps reconcile the 70's through your eyes and ears?
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
I so wish you hadn't started me on this topic!
If I listen to even one note of Lead Zepplin I get a very severe headache. To my ears, it is the "mother of all craps" yuck+++!
I can't even believe anyone actually likes this pure distortion torture to listen to gar-bage.
Why do think you think I so enjoy Rics so much?
Pure, unadulterated guitar sounds, the way God intended!
But, that being said (now that you have me on a roll) from the 1970's (or beyond a bit) I like that one song the "Reaper", or whatever" the title is by Blue Oyster Cult, also the group Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac (both old new lineups)also The Police and a few others. For me, you and you can simply flush most of the the rest including almost all of Macca's regrettable total mediocre **** he did with Wings.
What an embarrashment from someone that is SO SO talented!
The only times I listen to this other stuff from the 70's is when I am a forced audience inside a grocery store, where even the original recordings are now simply regarded as "musak." Speaks volumes to me!
It's never been impressive to me on any level that a record or anything else "sells millions". To me, it just means there are millions of drifters floating around without taste.
Witness fast foods, cheap business suits and skinny talentless anorexic actresses with plastic grossly oversized boobs and surgically inflated trendy lips.
If I listen to even one note of Lead Zepplin I get a very severe headache. To my ears, it is the "mother of all craps" yuck+++!
I can't even believe anyone actually likes this pure distortion torture to listen to gar-bage.
Why do think you think I so enjoy Rics so much?
Pure, unadulterated guitar sounds, the way God intended!
But, that being said (now that you have me on a roll) from the 1970's (or beyond a bit) I like that one song the "Reaper", or whatever" the title is by Blue Oyster Cult, also the group Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac (both old new lineups)also The Police and a few others. For me, you and you can simply flush most of the the rest including almost all of Macca's regrettable total mediocre **** he did with Wings.
What an embarrashment from someone that is SO SO talented!
The only times I listen to this other stuff from the 70's is when I am a forced audience inside a grocery store, where even the original recordings are now simply regarded as "musak." Speaks volumes to me!
It's never been impressive to me on any level that a record or anything else "sells millions". To me, it just means there are millions of drifters floating around without taste.
Witness fast foods, cheap business suits and skinny talentless anorexic actresses with plastic grossly oversized boobs and surgically inflated trendy lips.
"Your Greatest Power is the Power to Choose"
OK I give up. Perhaps tell us how you really feel about that era. Don't hold back now! 
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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studiotwosession
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- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:36 pm
The question is, do you look back for the trash or do you look back for what you consider the good stuff?
There are a lot of people in this forum who like a lot of the stuff from the 70s that makes me hurl (ELO, Yes and a bunch of other prog., Rush, etc.)
And like someone said above, I really, really tired of Zep in that decade (see thread about how Jimmy Page outright stole songs from others... not just melodies but words, arrangements..the whole 9 yards and not just once but numerous times. It's at: www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html )
But then again, the 70s produced far more rock that is closely associated with the melodic, three-minute pop songs of the 60s and of course Rickenbacker sounds and style than any other decade has, since (and yes, that's been a big problem.)
In the first half of the decade, it was slim pickens. The Raspberries and Big Star come to mind (the second flying completely under the radar but an important band that influenced good groups later.)
But in '76 you have Tom Petty and the HB's first album, and at about the same time, the Jam surfacing in the UK, and not long after it was all followed by Costello, Cheap Trick, Nick Lowe/Rockpile, etc., etc., etc.
By the end of the decade you had hit albums with guys holding Rick 12 strings on the cover (Damn the Torpedoes.) And a ton of New Wave with huge 60s influences throughout. (At the same time sucky disco was big.)
Plus there were the Allmans, and the Band as has been mentioned (though two of their best three LPs were 60s, not 70s.)
So, yes there was a lot of rubbish in the 70s. But the ratio of it to good stuff was certainly a lot worse in the 80s, when anything resembling well crafted guitar pop (in the US at least) was asked to tread only in the college market and never invited to go mainstream, which is a problem here to this day.
I do agree about the rest of the decade, though. Terrible US products, gas lines, unsuccessful presidents, etc.
And to bookend it all, John got shot!
There are a lot of people in this forum who like a lot of the stuff from the 70s that makes me hurl (ELO, Yes and a bunch of other prog., Rush, etc.)
And like someone said above, I really, really tired of Zep in that decade (see thread about how Jimmy Page outright stole songs from others... not just melodies but words, arrangements..the whole 9 yards and not just once but numerous times. It's at: www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html )
But then again, the 70s produced far more rock that is closely associated with the melodic, three-minute pop songs of the 60s and of course Rickenbacker sounds and style than any other decade has, since (and yes, that's been a big problem.)
In the first half of the decade, it was slim pickens. The Raspberries and Big Star come to mind (the second flying completely under the radar but an important band that influenced good groups later.)
But in '76 you have Tom Petty and the HB's first album, and at about the same time, the Jam surfacing in the UK, and not long after it was all followed by Costello, Cheap Trick, Nick Lowe/Rockpile, etc., etc., etc.
By the end of the decade you had hit albums with guys holding Rick 12 strings on the cover (Damn the Torpedoes.) And a ton of New Wave with huge 60s influences throughout. (At the same time sucky disco was big.)
Plus there were the Allmans, and the Band as has been mentioned (though two of their best three LPs were 60s, not 70s.)
So, yes there was a lot of rubbish in the 70s. But the ratio of it to good stuff was certainly a lot worse in the 80s, when anything resembling well crafted guitar pop (in the US at least) was asked to tread only in the college market and never invited to go mainstream, which is a problem here to this day.
I do agree about the rest of the decade, though. Terrible US products, gas lines, unsuccessful presidents, etc.
And to bookend it all, John got shot!
This is off the record
John was killed on December 8 1980, lest we forget. Please don't get me started on that horrible beginning to the 80's.
Elvis Costello (Declan Patrick MacManus) is one artist I could never get into. First of all using the name Elvis is a bit over the top. I have an aversion to Maddona's stage name for similar reasons. I don't like her music either. Mr Costello's music is oh so forgettable to my ears. However I did like his backing band on his first album. They were originally called "Clover" Later on they became Huey Lewis and the News.
We could list a lot of 70's music that paved the way for some of the garbage that passes for music today but we could also look at those who stuck to their roots and gave us some good music to listen to.
Disco was a music industry sponsored fad. As a musician and songwriter I strongly disliked that genre. It killed all hope for any decent up and coming band to obtain a recording contract. Even those who were established had a tough time thanks to that infestation.
Elvis Costello (Declan Patrick MacManus) is one artist I could never get into. First of all using the name Elvis is a bit over the top. I have an aversion to Maddona's stage name for similar reasons. I don't like her music either. Mr Costello's music is oh so forgettable to my ears. However I did like his backing band on his first album. They were originally called "Clover" Later on they became Huey Lewis and the News.
We could list a lot of 70's music that paved the way for some of the garbage that passes for music today but we could also look at those who stuck to their roots and gave us some good music to listen to.
Disco was a music industry sponsored fad. As a musician and songwriter I strongly disliked that genre. It killed all hope for any decent up and coming band to obtain a recording contract. Even those who were established had a tough time thanks to that infestation.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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studiotwosession
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I know JL was killed in '80. But that bookend the 70s. And of course in his final interviews he talked much about the 70s and 80s.
Brian, my first ever concert was a triple bill. Clover; Bob Welch and Dave Mason at Northwestern University, must have been '75 or so. Since Clover was the first band on at my first concert, I can still remember them vividly, and I don't remember them sounding anything like what they morphed into, or what they sounded like backing E.C.
Good as they sounded on Costello's first, no complaints there whatsoever, what made his next two records (and several after) clearly was his band. The Attractions were great.
I don't know any bass players who don't hold Bruce Thomas in the absolute highest of regards, nor drummers who don't feel the same way about Pete Thomas.
Plus of course Macca likes him enough to work with him.
They had it all except vocals (E.C. can't sing for squat. But for a while there, against some very good new wave competition, he was clearly one of the best song writers around and for a lot of it he's had one of the best bands. Two out of three ain't bad.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Attractions
Brian, my first ever concert was a triple bill. Clover; Bob Welch and Dave Mason at Northwestern University, must have been '75 or so. Since Clover was the first band on at my first concert, I can still remember them vividly, and I don't remember them sounding anything like what they morphed into, or what they sounded like backing E.C.
Good as they sounded on Costello's first, no complaints there whatsoever, what made his next two records (and several after) clearly was his band. The Attractions were great.
I don't know any bass players who don't hold Bruce Thomas in the absolute highest of regards, nor drummers who don't feel the same way about Pete Thomas.
Plus of course Macca likes him enough to work with him.
They had it all except vocals (E.C. can't sing for squat. But for a while there, against some very good new wave competition, he was clearly one of the best song writers around and for a lot of it he's had one of the best bands. Two out of three ain't bad.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Attractions
This is off the record
Yes I agree on the fact that players in his subsequent band were very good. The sum of the parts however does not do anything for me.
I have a fairly open mind when it comes to music. Mr. Costello was and continues to be all over the map with his offerings. I could be wrong on this observation but it seems to me that consistency of style emerges only because of his hard work to get the listener to recognise his stamp on the music. I applaud his efforts in that regard. He certainly was tenacious throughout his career and he never gave up. I admire him for that. I just can't warm up to him.
I have a fairly open mind when it comes to music. Mr. Costello was and continues to be all over the map with his offerings. I could be wrong on this observation but it seems to me that consistency of style emerges only because of his hard work to get the listener to recognise his stamp on the music. I applaud his efforts in that regard. He certainly was tenacious throughout his career and he never gave up. I admire him for that. I just can't warm up to him.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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studiotwosession
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- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:36 pm
I think E.C., early on at least, benefitted from not only having a great band(s)...counting Clover... but also being a part of Stiff records early on. There was a lot of talent hanging out at that place in those days.
Nick Lowe gave EC one of his best known tunes and certainly produced the best Attractions records. I know some people like the Spike album but I can't get into the stuff he's done without the three he's most known for working with.
Sorta like I've Elton John and his original band. A lot of his success is due to three guys most people couldn't place if they tried. But they had great chemistry and put their marks all over the best records the singers in question did.
Nick Lowe gave EC one of his best known tunes and certainly produced the best Attractions records. I know some people like the Spike album but I can't get into the stuff he's done without the three he's most known for working with.
Sorta like I've Elton John and his original band. A lot of his success is due to three guys most people couldn't place if they tried. But they had great chemistry and put their marks all over the best records the singers in question did.
This is off the record