What kind of guitars?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:57 pm

Hi all,
I have a 1985 Rhino LP The Searchers Greatest Hits, and on the cover both the bass player and one of the guitar players (sorry don't know their names, or actually who is who) have the same kind of guitars, 12 string and the bass. The name is on a little plate on the bottom cutaway of the guitars, the first letter is much bigger than the rest and looks like a B, I'm not sure though, I also heard that they had played Kappa guitars. The guitars are white with black pick guards, anyone know what these are? The other guitar was a Tele.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:31 pm

It's probably their Burns guitars.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:50 am

It definately is the Burns Guitars Tim, which prompted my response to an early posting. Clearly Rickenbackers were played on some recordings but I honestly don't think it as many as some believe. Don't know where Kappa comes in, I always thought they were a brand of Trainers, perhaps Bob is thinking of the Aria guitars they used a lot in the 70's and 80's

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:52 am

Roy and Tim: I agree that it has to be the Burns guitars. Burns London made guitars for many top groups over the years including Hank Marvin, Brian May and The Searchers, of course. Please note the Burns Bison 1963 model photos below which were of the type used by the Searchers. I don't know if they used these on stage only or if they ever recorded with them. The Searchers early recording instruments were the Gibson ES335, the Hofner Club 60, Fender Telecaster and Hofner Violin Bass. The official Searchers'site has the details.

Of particular interest to Beatles' guitar enthusiasts is the Burns knobs which you see on the front of the 1963 Burns Bison 6 string below. Lennon used this style of knob on his 1958 Rickenbacker Model 325.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 8:08 am

That is one cool looking guitar, those are the kinds that made me want to play guitar when I was a kid, 15 pickups and 43 knobs with numbers on them! I think that they are Burns guitars on this cover, it is still hard to see because their hands are right over the middle of both of them, but the pickups and knobs look similar to this guitar. The overall shape is very similar too, especially the cutaways, they look like a bison (a real one). The Bass on the cover looks like a big long scale bass, very nice, I'd like to get my hands on one. They just reissued the Burns Bison bass, it has three pickups. It is not the bass on this cover however.

jjr · Post by **jjr** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 6:42 pm

I saw those guitars used live, at a Murray the K rock and roll show at the Brooklyn Fox in September '64. White with blue pick guards.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:13 am

Do you have a memory of how they sounded? These instruments were not used in the studio to record the early classics such as "Sweets For My Sweet" and "Needles and Pins". I am wondering, in fact, if they were used in the studio at all.

jjr · Post by **jjr** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:57 am

With all the screaming, I can't be sure, but from what I recall they were OK. They did "Needles and Pins", "Someday We're Gonna Love Again", and (I think), "Ain't That Just Like Me". Interestingly, I never saw those guitars again, when they did TV over here. That includes several appearances on "Shindig", one shot on "Steve Allen", a short while later, and one "Hulabaloo" from England. So maybe they didn't care for them that much, either.

mark_telfer · Post by **mark_telfer** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:50 pm

There is an episode of Ready, Steady, Go! in circulation from 1965 where a 3-Burns Searchers line-up mimes to "What Have They Done To The Rain" and "This Feeling Inside". Mike plays his custom-coloured white Double Six, John plays his greenburst Double Six and Frank plays his white Bison Bass. I think you'll find that only the Bison had blue-grey tortoiseshell scratchplates, while the Double Six came with plain black ones. New to the public in 1964, the hefty Double Six had the same body as the Jazz Bass played by Pete Staples of The Troggs, but also in 1964, a new Bison guitar and bass appeared, that had been revamped along the lines of the new Marvin guitar and Shadows bass – quite different from the 1963 Bison in the above photos.

As each of The Searchers' “signature” Burns models appeared in 1964, I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to have been used on "Sweets For My Sweet" or “Needles & Pins”, but I have owned both Rickenbacker and Burns 12-strings and I definitely hear the Burns and not the Rickenbacker 12-string sound on tracks like "When You Walk In The Room", “Everybody Come & Clap Your Hands” and “If I Could Find Someone”, with the strings arranged in the conventional way and the 3 individually-selectable Burns Trisonic pickups.

I can vouch for the fact that these Burns models were quite heavy compared to their Rickenbacker equivalents, so it would seem odd for the group to have carried them (and John’s Telecaster) around for live appearances if they had a secret stash of Rickenbackers back at the ranch.

The earliest photo that I've seen of The Searchers with a Rickenbacker shows Mike with a Rose-Morris 1993 on RSG! in 1966, with John Blunt on drums and Frank Allen on a Gibson EB-0.

May I politely challenge anyone point me to hard evidence that The Searchers really were Rickenbacker users before mid-1966?

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 2:12 pm

Mark: Very nice post. I especially like your comments on the Burns 12 string guitar and the difference in sound compared to the Rickenbacker. A very nice article could be written about the 12 strings used by The Searchers.

With regard to your question at the end of your post, The Searchers first used a Rickenbacker 12 string (Rose-Morris Model 1993) on their recording of "When You Walk In The Room". This was learned from information that I received from Mike Pender. Frank Allen recalls recording "When You Walk In The Room" shortly after he joined the Searchers in August 1964. So this would be sufficient evidence for me that they used the Rickenbacker 12 string prior to 1966. From 1966 onward, they have used a number of 12 strings including Aria and Rickenbacker.

Frank Allen has commented on more than one occasion that he does not like to take his valuable Rickenbacker Model 4001 Jetglo bass one the road for fear that something will happen to it. As you know John McNally uses his Rickenbacker 620/12 on the road but also uses an Aria.

Burns has a great reputation for making quality instruments. The design of the rather large horns has limited aesthetic appeal to me, however, many successful British artists used the Burns line and I have nothing against them. The Searchers were endorsing Burns instruments, for a period, and it makes perfect sense that they would use them in public but not necessarily in the studio.

It would be very interesting to know on what recordings these instruments were used. It would seem from you analysis that the did use them. Perhaps Pender, Allen or McNally will let us know.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:20 am

As I have stated on previous postings and have to concur with Mark, I believe that on the "Sounds Like Searchers" and "Take Me For What I'm Worth" albums, Mike and Frank used Burns. I will get this clarified though at the earliest opportunity, unless Tim or Frank Allen himself substantiates the query.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:52 am

Thanks goes out to Wendy Burton who was able to get comments from Frank Allen regarding the extent to which Burns guitars were used in the recording studio. His comments were

"Yes, they were. Pretty much around the 'Walk In The Room' time. We were given a set of white ones and a green twelve string and I remember taking my white Bison Bass to the States in Sept/October `64. Later we were asked to pay for them. I think we used Burns on 'Walk in The Room' and probably 'What Have They Done To The Rain.' Some others too but I can`t remember exactly which. Pretty soon after that Mike Pender bought a Rickenbacker 12 string."

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:44 am

Photo of The Searchers with their Burns guitars submitted by Roy Clough.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:20 am

Those are the same guitars as one my Rhino LP, different clothing though, I thought when I first looked at it that maybe it was from the same photo shoot, but I don't think so. the drum riser is different and so is the backdrop. Great shot though. I love the way those old 60's English bass players played, simple simple simple. It's taken me 37 years to get that simple! haha.
Incidently Peter, concerning my uncontrollable outburst the other day, in Perú we drink sensanilla tea (sp?) instead of camomile to chill.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:12 am

That looks like the set of Ready Steady Go to me. Judging by the Bongos Chris is playing maybe at the end of 64 when they appeared on the show to promote "What Have They Done To The Rain". I notice John is playing his Fender though.